_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hi folks - been lurking here a while as i'm pondering my next car choice - i think that an Audi will be the car for me, hence me posting in here, but i'm sort of torn between two audis - the A4 Avant, and the A3 sportback. Its a company car decision so i've got 3 years to live with the car i choose. I've driven both the A3 Sline SB 2.0TDI with DSG, and an A4 TDI Sline, both seemed "okay" handling wise, but the didn't set the world on fire with feedback and confidence, they were very nice "cruisers". As the budget is around £24k - £26k the Merc C200 CDI and the BMW 3 touring come into the equation. The dog needs space, so saloons are out, and looking at the merc/a4/bmw i'd have to say the new audi looks pretty poor when sat next to the easily recognisable face of the merc. I've not had chance to drive the Merc or the BMW, but as these are both RWD i'd expect them to have better steering stups than the audis. Has anyone compared these before? Going back to the A3 - the reason this was on the list was for the fact that i liked the look of it, although the "image" of the a3 always seems to be "couldn't quite afford an a4 avant" - am i alone in this type of thought? Also i know folks at work seem to think the A3 is a golf trying to be posh, and its not really an audi ! I've always liked the bmw 3 series, but with a new saloon coming out - buying an old style touring (which shouldn't get replaced until 2006) might not be the best choice. sort of a rambling question - but given the above thoughts - what would you buy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 A4 avant very well built, neutral image, great interior, looks cool, comfy seats (sports pack), relaxed and sporty. not the best handling car in the world, but then how often are you going to be taking corners at 90mph with the dog in the back? personally i like the handling of the sturdy A4. it always goes where you point it, and feels like its on rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBM Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Welcome to TSN! Why not go for a used Avant B6 GmbH 1.9TDI or 2.5 TDI. You get the sporty looks and avoid the new B7 nose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loddrik Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 You'll get a mainly Audi bias on here so you should maybe try other forums too. The Merc and BM' have better chassis than the Audi, the Audi is better built and costs less, the BM' drives much better than the other 2 and has the better engine, though the Merc is RWD it doesn't FEEL as RWD as the BM'. If it were me, I'd go for the BM' but they all have their merits. Buy a used 330d Sport Touring though and you'll have a car than wil run rings round the Merc and Audi alternatives, and that's were my money would go. Test all 3, though I also like the Volvo V50, a great looking car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 i'd love to go for a nice used B6 model - but the policy only allows new cars. Thanks for the welcome ! Here are the pics i've been looking at: A very poor shot of the new audi, which shows the nose that looks like its been too close to a fire and melted slightly The Merc - with what i think is a great front end. The BMW - at this money i can't afford the 'sport' models and the M-style bodykit - a nice looking motor - but soon to look dated. For engine the BMW has it For interior the Audi has it For front end the Merc has it For rear end the Audi has it as a balance i think the A4 avant is the one, but perhaps in a colour that stops me looking at the headlamps - why they had to give it a weepy eyed expression - the A3 looks great from the front, as does the A6 - nice butch aggressive near square lamps, big open gob grille - which is sort of growing on me, but the lamps really spoil the A4 - i suppose if i park it nose in everywhere, i only have to look at the back and the interior any more opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBM Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] For engine the BMW has it For interior the Audi has it For front end the Merc has it For rear end the Audi has it [/ QUOTE ] Are you sure about the rear end? I saw the lot today and I have to say the A4 rear end looks very Toyota! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loddrik Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Don't bother with a non-sport BM', they don't look or drive as good. The Merc is pricey when you've put a couple of extra's on, facelift Audi not as boring as pre-facelift, if you get a Merc, you'll need the auto box and that's not cheap IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 merc is about £35 to £40 a month higher on the tax, as its 2.2 diesel engine isn't the most tree-friendly - plus its quite slow too - 12.2 seonds to 60 (yawn!) - The BM would be the ES model that they do - plus i'd add in sports seats and some nice 17" alloys. The A4 has these as standard, with a nice 140bhp 2.0 TDI lump, and i've found out that the promotion where you get a free upgrade to 18" alloys and silver trim inside the cabin is being continued past 31st March delivery dates to the end of June - so the A4 will look more "bling" for less money than the other two. The back end of the A4 looks fine to me - just! - the lamps from the A6 with thier LED bulbs would be better, but i think it works okay - perhaps in Quartz Grey or Pearl Black for the body colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBM Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Who said "bling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] A4 avant very well built, neutral image, great interior, looks cool, comfy seats (sports pack), relaxed and sporty. not the best handling car in the world, but then how often are you going to be taking corners at 90mph with the dog in the back? personally i like the handling of the sturdy A4. it always goes where you point it, and feels like its on rails [/ QUOTE ] I guess loddrik's right about what answer you're going to get here but it seems to me that you wouldn't ask it here if you didn't know what we'd say!!! (I think that makes sense ) CabrioJ has just about got it covered although I'm still not 100% sure about the B7 . I guess I'm one of the 'phew that was close' S-Line owners here My car was purely a private purchase and I'm going to live with it for a good few years.I had the budget and didn't even think about the choice. ....Well a little. BMW. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I really dont care about oversteer and RWD and my Quattro is fantastic. I never drove a FrWD A4 but in my heart I know the BM will be a better drive. When I see a 3s' touring driver and how green his eyes are I smile inside and think 'Lemming'. I also think about how poor the interior is and know I couldn't live with it . Audi really do know to screw bits of plastic together and anyone who gives it the 'expensive VW,Seat,Skoda' really needs to take a closer look. MERC. I did think about this one and the new C class is a good looking car, but I can't help thinking TAXI! when I see one . For me the image is shattered. I'm just not old enough for one yet and may never be too ! So to the A4 . It really is a cool car for those who know and as for the others ..... well just think 'lemming'. The laugh is on them when they say 'jumped up Skoda'. It's not even your money ..GO FOR IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precab Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Welcome to TSN Steve. I might be able to give a different perspective. I don't own an Audi, but am going through similar (but different!) thought processes. I've just spent the weekend with a C180 Avantgarde Auto and I was very impressed. It had the Sport pack (Wheels, suspension, seats etc), and it was a genuinely good car. The Sport pack makes it look mean, and it was good fun to throw around . What I would say about the C200 CDi is that it is very slow, and being a Merc you have to go for an Auto as the foot brake is a major pain. The C180 is faster and smoother, albeit with more emissions (but lower list price). Personally wouldn't have a BMW because of the image . Build quality is variable as well. What Audi do well is the image and quality thing, which goes a long way in my book. There are lots of satisfied people on here. Good luck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 thanks folks - the avus avant looks very sweet - those alloys really do match the car - i just wish audi would keep the colour range for more than 6 months - now we have Akoya Silver, Light Silver, Quartz Grey and Dolphin Grey - how many greys/silvers do they invent/need???!!! i do like the Quartz Grey though - its a newish colour i'm told - i like black but am afraid i'll be washing the car twice a week to keep it looking 100% - at least with a grey/silver you have extra running time whilst the car goes from grimy to filthy stages, and then you need to wash. Precab - i hat to admit it in public but i went to look at the X-type estate - it looks like a really nice car - sort of has decent proportions, but i couldn't get over the front end lights - they just look too oldy-worly for my liking and the dashboard with its ford LCD on green backlit mileometer sort of leaves you wishing for the deep red glow of the audi instruments. - the footwell was cramped too - nowhere to rest your clutch foot - my fat foot clipped the clutch lever as i tried to rest it in the well - obviously a result of the 4 wheel drive tranmission tunnel. I did like the dual opening rear tailgate though - this is something audi should have on the avant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearra Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Part agree with Loddrick here, I've had a C180 and a C200 kompressor and in all honesty there was far greater attention to technical detail in the Merc than my Audi. Example on the Avant Garde even the rear vent have there own fan to ensure heating gets to the rear passengers. The climate control is far better than Audi. There is speed limit and cruise control as standard. I think the C class is a really good car, the onboard computer gives access to everything that we have to plug in VAGcom to change! The merc package is great! BUT wait till you open and close the door on a C class sudenly you start thinking cheap! They have no way near the build quality of an Audi, more like a top spec Ford. But saying that never had anything go wrong with a Merc (although I'm sure many do). The C180 has a complete dog of an engine, the C200 komp was good performer but sound like a bag of nails, dealer said they all sound like that! Handling is a bit soft for my liking. But by far the best motorway cruiser I have ever had!! Merc auto is fantastic, used to love pushing the throttle down until the button clicks and it kicks back down the gears and takes off! But given the choice I would have the Audi, the Merc is a lovely car but lacks something the Audi has, even though standard equipment on the Merc blows Audi away (not sure about compare price spec to spec). Though there is something special about driving round with the Merc badge in front on the bonnet. Beamers, great handling and fun, but interior is very iffy IMHO My choice would be; 1 Audi 2 Merc 3 BMW My old Merc, I miss her quite a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 sorry if i offend anyone here - but the A3 is looking very nice in my eyeline too, just looking at the car as shown here: and you can see this car sits really well on the 18" alloys, the little ally roof rails - and to be honest a big enough boot for my needs (they are both 1000mm wide in the boot, with the A4 being 1025mm deep and the A3 being 830mm deep) Hmmmm - at least with the A3 i'm 100% happy about the headlights - plus they give you a DSG gearbox and paddles to play with on the sport model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yen77 Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 In the past, I've driven the Beemer 740i, Merc E320 Cdi, Audi A4 B5 (1.8). IMO Beemer: Performance at its best. Interior typically Reinforced leather wrapped plastic. Styling is a little dated. Current 3 series looks like a pensioners car. If you're not concerned in the least about styling, this is the car to go for. There is not a person who can dispute the ultimate driving machine that beemers have. The gearbox tends to go after about 5 years, shorter, if driving hard Merc Quality is questionable. The current C and E classes are supposedly guaranteed by Mercedes to last at least 30 years. My dad's car is already in a state of disrepair after about 4 years. Turbo is in a state and the dealer has no idea how to fix it. STeering wheel came slightly off tangent, and to this day, nobody knows how to fix it.The Driver Info Display on the dash has gone kaput... the LED is all over the place, so you can't tell if you're in 2,3,4 or R. Neither can you tell the temperature. Climate control goes haywire a lot. Heating comes on in the summer! The drive shaft tends to go after about 5 years. This is due to the front wheels rotating their camber upon turning, to allow for a smaller turning circle. Bottome line, Merc has nice lines, good image but very questionable quality. Audi: Styling lies in between subtle, elegant and aggressive. Quality is assured.. Vorschprung Durch Technik literally conjures up an image of thousands of German workers slaving their butts away to make sure your car mat is sewn to precision with 1,123.567 cm of thread (hehehahah) My old B5 was ever so faithful, even to the point of the sump gasket wearing out after 95K, the car was drivable and smooth to the last drop of engine oil! (not that I ever drove it to the last drop hehe). Audi is a good compromise. One word of advice is that if you're going for the Audi, make sure you go for the bigger engine, or get the package options, as individual options are far more expensive. The STealer not only gets a cut from the RRP of the car, he also gets about 15-20% for each option you ask for! ie: £300 for lumbar support gets the stealer 60 notes! Unfortunately, my opinion is biased by the fact that I've only ever driven the higher classed cars in the other makes. Hope this is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] thanks folks - the avus avant looks very sweet - those alloys really do match the car - i just wish audi would keep the colour range for more than 6 months - now we have Akoya Silver, Light Silver, Quartz Grey and Dolphin Grey - how many greys/silvers do they invent/need???!!! [/ QUOTE ] Don't forget Atlas Grey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 atlas is now deleted - the Quartz Grey is the new atlas !?!? and your cab looks gorgeous ! - if i could train the dog to sit still on the rear seats and not jump out - i'd be having a cab for my money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Thats not my Cab I'm afraid, mines Moro Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] atlas is now deleted - the Quartz Grey is the new atlas !?!? and your cab looks gorgeous ! - if i could train the dog to sit still on the rear seats and not jump out - i'd be having a cab for my money ! [/ QUOTE ] dogs are fine in the cab..they enjoy the breeze. honestly!! go on, buy a cab. then we can have a fun discussion.... none of this uber-practical buying an avant just in case you ever need to carry an old door to the tip rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Thats not my Cab I'm afraid, mines Moro Blue. [/ QUOTE ] never mind. at least its nearly black ()... especially when you dont wash it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 It looks black at night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Steve Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Moro blue looks real nice too - but after seeing a showroom car with so many swirls on the paint - i realised this was higher maintenance than black paint ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 All the dark colours tend to look swirly under spotlights, looks fine in natural daylight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loddrik Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 I have to dissagree on BMW build quality, as many of you on here know, I have had a few cars, inc 4 Audi's, the BM's I've had have always offered the best built, most reliable pakages. Yes, I am a BMW'o'phile, as once you are used to the drive of a decent Sport model, it's competitors just bore you to tears, The new A4 may be slightly better built, but only slightly, there really isn't much in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Loddrick I'm with you on this. The 3 series BMW I've just exchanged for my current car felt more solid inside than my current cab. However I did have wood trim in it and a friend did say that my old car looked much better than his with the standard trim. However I do think that BMW are going in the wrong direction as the materials used inside of the new 5 series are absolute pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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