CarMad Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Ok so first things first yes I know this an Audi biased forum but I thought I’d post anyway because not everyone is, and some might be interested to see what’s out there. I have had the chance to drive the new car after an invite from BMW to come along at a session taking place at Rockingham race circuit in Corby. Hadn’t been before and a BMW could be a possibility for my next motor in a few years time. New E90 BMW 330i SE with a sport kit. Not sure if this is the final version, it appeared to have carbon fibre look front splitters!! NEWS ON RELEASE DATES During the day I got chatting to one of the BMW people there called Greg who professed himself to be the product release manager. He obviously knew his stuff and was a great bloke to speak to. Vented my spleen at the silly prices of extras, Bluetooth kit is £535 and Sat-Nav that brings I-Drive and the screen etc. is £1930, defences where good but things are still pricy. Anyway this is what I managed to find out. 330d – September 2005 M Sport kit September. Expect a 10% increase on the price of the old kit. They are taking more M parts etc. from the new M3 that are higher spec into the car than before, and will also be fitting standard Goodyear’s on the car. Apparently on the 5 for instance the M Sport kit has many M5 components on the chassis making it ride a lot better. 325d – June 2006 This is the car before I drove the new petrol’s see below that I was most likely be able to afford so asked him if it was going to come out. He view was a final decision is still to be made but the engine is being demanded in places like Italy that are 95% diesel. See what happens around June next year was the eventual response with a big smile on his face. INTERIOR All cars were fitted out with Leather and were dripping with spec. Almost every car had about £3-4k of extras so looking at the basic cabin wasn’t so easy. I got a pick of the most basic I could find below. One thing I was surprised about was that you can’t have the screen or I-drive as you can in a % series without getting Sat-nav for now at least. So if you want the fancy screen it will be hand in pocket time for a few thousand pounds. I had a quick play with I-Drive and am not convinced. I love gadgets and work in IT but it wasn’t easy to just click play and get it working, a bit of serious manual reading is probably required. The dash is better than in the 5 Series and the quality of the plastics isn’t too bad, on this front Audi doesn’t have too much to worry about they still have the 3 Series beaten but I would say it might be the only area now. There is a lot more space in the car. With the seat setup for myself at 6.2 there was enough for me to sit in the back seat without problems. The car has much more space than the old 3 or current A4. Seats were all comfortable throughout the days driving. There are a few neat touches in the car like the chilled drinks holders for example and a few more gadgets like adaptive radar cruise control. It was hard to learn more in such a short time. HANDLING Of the three cars I drove all handled and rode very well. The steering is meaty and responsive with loads of feel, the steering wheel is thick and nice to hold and smaller than in my Audi. Low speed ride on the run flats wasn’t anything like as bad as the 5 series or Z4 that I have been in a big improvement. I was able to drive a 330i SE around the circuit as fast as I wanted / was able to really. You had a race driver to offer tips of to reign you in. I have to say that Rockingham felt like a really slippery circuit from what I am used to something that he agreed with. Most people were pottering around but I wasn’t going have a car like this for a drive round a circuit and not drive it as hard as I could. It does under steer quite a bit in some of the corners when I out braked myself but I am almost willing to blame this on the circuit. The car was very neutral and even a heft prod on the throttle didn’t let it stop out (Probably due to DSC+ read below) It did flow from corner to corner really well and not having the front wheels driven reminded me why having a rear wheel car can be so much nicer to drive. I got about 5 laps in in all and really enjoyed myself, not sure I could have said the same in my previous A4 or current A3 Sportback even if both aren’t that much less powerful, the Sportback feels as light on is feet but the front wheel drive would have struggled and the Quattro extra weight on my A4 would have been a nighmare. One of the parts of the day was to drive a car with a run flat with the valve removed. Whilst the steering was undoubtedly heavier you could round some cones with ease. With recent criticism of run flats driving one with a flat tyre is astounding. You can drive home on the thing with no problems and replace it the following day its that good. I’d rather have that if I had a blow out I think. Dynamic Drive and DSC+ Test This was a real treat and an example of how far car safety devices have really improved. This test was done in a 325 SE. The driver belted away and quickly ra corner to show the cars braking and acceleration, both were excellent. He then explained he was going to show us a quick direction change whilst braking to show ABS and the other systems kicking in. So a quick 1st 2nd and he slammed the brakes on through the car between the cones. A fairly violent exercise but a great show of what the car could do in an emergency. Next I got in the driving seat for a really fun test. Basically they had created a skid pan to go in a circle and test the handling or rather the systems within the car. Both the 325 and 330 are fitted with the latest version of DSC, DSC+. I think this is similar to what is now fitted to the new A4, it applies the brakes in the wet to keep water of them for example. So on with the test, I was told to go into the skid pan and circle at 15mph and then floor.. yes floor the throttle. So set off shift into second and circle, and then told to floor it which is a strange experience because your mind tells you that you are going to have to be ready to catch the resultant slide / over steer. Erm no and emphatic no at that, the car accelerated and circled as fast as the tyres could go and you could barely feel the power coming on or off or any of the wheels being braked. It just continued to go round in a perfect circle, its extremely impressive technology and so subtle in its execution its untrue. If you loose a BMW with this system quite simply you are driving like a moron. Next you do the same test through the cones, nail the car and then step on the brakes and go through the cones, I would have paid if I’d have known it would be this much fun. The ENGINES – WOW Right I have driven quite a few nice cars, nothing supper quick but quite a few cars in this class and a few in the class above including a current M3. On the circuit drive we had the chance of driving a 320d / 320i or 330i, so as luck would have it I managed to get myself in a 330i. 258bhp, only a little bit less than the M3 of 1991, 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and onto a limited 155MPH. This is a truly deeply impressive engine. It super smooth and has power everywhere in the rev range, pull out of a slow corner in 3rd and it hauls the car out with a deep snarly growl that gets tighter and sharper the closer to the redline it gets, it feels unburstable. Gone are the out of torque need more rev moments of some of the past 6 cylinder motors, peak torque of 221Lb-ft is available at 2500rpm, that’s almost as low as the turbo diesel for goodness sake. They have been able to do this because of the use of Valvetronic that does away with the typical friction in a traditional engine. My Dad has a current 325 so had a good yardstick on the difference and have driven the previous 330 before. I can’t convey my surprise about how cultured it is and the way it goes about moving the car down the road. It gives the car such a good soulful feeling I came away having to get one or most likely a 325. The 325 was only slightly slower and now also has over 218 bhp and sounded little different. Bolt on the fact that they are more economical than just about every rival power for power and you wonder what they can offer next. Well refinement is one thing because at a constant cruise the blend into the background and become almost silent. Gearbox was good but a bit to keen to spring to the centre for me, not as snick snick as a current Lexus IS200 thats for sure. But the clutch and drivetrain all mated togeather well for quick progress. If you are reading this and have ordered a new 325 or 330 and haven’t driven it yet you are getting a great car with a stunning engine. BMW have over the years and showed up in a poll I did a few weeks ago have created some of the best engines of any manufacture and the best just got a whole lot better. Even the 4 cylinder 320 has now got a bit more of a tuneful engine than it used to be. I didn’t get to drive a 320d so can’t comment on that I’m afraid. VERDICT Have to say thanks to BMW for a great day out shame it wasn’t a bit warmer but at least it was dry. They also gave out a goody bag as you left with brochures and magazines in it and even a BMW 3 pen. Bless I know I drive an Audi now but when you get into a car that handles and drives as impressively as this I am definitely thinking of changing. The interior isn’t as good but it’s a improvement and the extras are a lot of money but even still for the pleasure of driving the car and even just down to how chunky and feel some the steering wheel is it’s a great new car to the segment. Shame I have over 3 years left before I get the chance to look at getting into one. I have put all the pictures I made on the day in this BMW E90 3 Series Picture Gallery . Sorry for some of the dodgy pics, it wasn’t easy to get a clear shot of the cars or interior. If anyone has any questions I am happy to answer / wait for the flack of the Audi lovers . I just like good cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossG Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Nice review - sounds like an awsome day. I was involved in a day liek this with the 1 series, although sadly not on a track, and have to say its a great marketing tool. Real exposure to a car, the best way to get the 'want one' factor going. Have to say that I wasnt convinced by the new 3's looks in the magazines, but in your pics it looks great - and that engine sounds like a honey. Now, that 1 series you pictured looked lovely, so if I can have one that looks like that with the 3.0 engine... Yum! Mind you - the Alpina Z4 was winking at me in your pics too, along with the 645 cab. Must have been a wicked day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted February 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 It was a great day. Have been on a Vauxhall day at Oulton Park twice. Best one so far was an entire day at Millbrook Proving grounds when the IS200 Lexus was launched. Doing 150mph round the bowl in an LS400 and been thrown around the handling circuit by proper racing driver was awesome. But I have to say driving that 330 around the track was very special, its such a nice car to drive and the engine has power everywhere regardless of speed or gear. Have no idea how I get the invites by the way.. they get e-mailed or drop through the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmmlmmam Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Excellent write up - Thanks CarMad. Sounds like it's taken a bit of shine of the sportback First reasonable looking BM saloon for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted February 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I think your right about the shine. I have to get a car by choosing with my heart not my head, I did but I have just had things re-aligned a bit to say the least. I like the Sporback a lot its a great car and does everything really well be in no doubt about that. But I think I have fallen in love with the new 3 Series when fitted with one of those new gorgeous straight 6s they are just superb engines in every department. Every drive of the car is an event not a chore. Starting to save now I think it will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Good review, when/if the 335d Sport touring arrives I will be seriously tempted, someone put his foot down in front of me today in a 535d and, wow! I think that you have to have a big engine to justify adding the toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I forgot to ask if the 535d engine was coming over. It would be seriously quick if it did. Depends on engine bay space I presume. The new uprated 330d should be plenty quick enough for most people I think, even a 325d would do for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLittleUnit Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Right now I've got a brand new BMW 320d SE (E90) sat on my drive. It's another weekend demo that I forgot to cancel even though I've already ordered an Audi A3 Sportback 2.0 TDi DSG Sport. I only realised the demo was due when the dealer delivery guy called me last night to check the address and curiosity just got the better of me so I took the demo anyway. When it arrived I thought, oh no, this is really going to take the shine off my imminent Sportback arrival. I fully expected to have to swallow my pride and accept that I should have waited and ordered the new BMW. And I have to say the BMW has stunned me. I can't think that I've ever been so underwhelmed by a car. If this is "the ultimate driving machine" then clearly I'm looking for the wrong things in a car. Sure, it looks nice. The front is truly stunning although to me the rear looks like a Honda Accord or maybe a Mazda. Yes, it handles superbly when you drive it hard (much better than the A3 or A4) but I don't want a white knuckle ride every day. The new 2.0 diesel engine has received rave reviews so I was really surprise at how much it rattled when idle - it's noisier than my current D5 Volvo and didn't strike me as any more refined than the 2.0TDi Audi's (A3 and A4) I've been able to drive recently. BMW quote 0-62mph in 8.2 seconds but to be honest I didn't notice that the acceleration was any better than either my 2.4 litre Volvo (which does it in about 9.8 secs) and I actually thought it was slower than a 2.0 TDi DSG Sportback I had on test (although you could argue that my gear changes are ropey). Increase the revs and I'll confess that the engine does sound much smoother to the point of sounding almost petrol-like within the cabin (but could be insulation - must check the noise outside). It has a few nice features like the keyless ignition, can cooler in the armrest and the "overtaking" indicators that give three quick flashes of the relevant indicator lights if you flick the stalk but these are not enough to really set the BMW apart from the competition. Inside I was unimpressed with the space in both the cabin and the boot. I'm only 5'10" but the driver's seat position leaves little leg room in the rear. Considering there's no spare tyre in the boot I was surprised how small it is although BMW have done a good job with storage. The tray mounted at the top of the boot space is a great practical idea and this SE has an integrated "folding crate" which could also be very useful. I found the interior a little plasticky and nowhere near as attractive as the Audi range (the Sportback will be my first Audi so I don't believe I'm biased). The cloth seats in this demo model are already starting to "bobble" and this car is an 05 reg with 1000 miles on it so it can't be any older than 6 weeks! It'll be interesting to see if I can work up the enthusiasm to take the BMW out tomorrow or whether I'll stick with my existing S60 and I mean that in all sincerity. I suspect I'm just not BMW's target audience. When I got my last car I was all set on getting a 320d Touring but I had a quick drive in a colleague's 320d Sport saloon and again I was unimpressed. I ended up picking a Volvo S60 D5 SE so make of that what you will and treat my comments accordingly. Let me know if you want pics of anything specific or if there's anything you want me to look up in the manual. The car goes back first thing on Monday 18th April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Cheers for the first impressions review! Pics of the interior and exterior please, just out of interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLittleUnit Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 UPDATE: 10:50 Took wife and kids (2 boys aged 18 months and nearly 4) to local retail park today in 320d SE. Total distance almost 2 miles. Elapsed time almost 4 minutes. Arrive and "Nearly 4" has travel sickness (never experienced before). Clears up quickly. 12:50 Return home 2 hours later and the boor little blighter is suffering again. OK 5 mins after we get home. Hmmm ... "Nearly 4" is allergic to BMW 320d SE (E90). Also a big fan of Sportback (and Lego Star Wars) 19:50 "18 Month" won't sleep. 320 on driveway with total test drive distance of about 20 miles. Put "18 Month" in 320 and go out for a spin. 19:55 "18 Month" asleep. Unheard of in such a short period of time. 19:56 Well, I'm out already, may as well go for a more extended drive. 19:58 Hit M62 and M1 shortly after. Jeez - who swapped the car whilst I wasn't looking??? This is good. 19:59 This drives really well. No, this drives really REALLY well. "18 Month" still asleep despite rather high average speed (including corners). 20:02 Dilemma. All those cynical posts on various forums need changing. Gotta find something to dislike. 20:05 Darn - this is a really really really nice drive. 20:15 Drive through Leeds city centre. Several looks from groups of 20 something males, mainly aggressive. Ah - this is why I don't like BMW. 20:17 Back on M621 ... but this drives so well. 20:20 Arrive home. Internal lighting comes on. Ugh - the styling is atrocious. Plastic plastic everywhere! Even the aluminium is really plastic. Summary - great drive when you push it a bit. Interior by Ford. Photos to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLittleUnit Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 As requested, a couple of pics of the car. I've more at higher resolution if there's anything specific you might want to see. The car is actually a very dark blue although pics don't show it that well. Note that what looks like aluminium trim on the interior is actually plastic - very similar to that used on TVs these days. The tail pipe is nice considering this is a diesel - better than the usual down-turned drainpipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Complete with an E46 in the background to compare it to I think I`ve changed my mind... I think I prefer the E46 to the E90. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacelord Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 What about a frontal shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLittleUnit Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Didn't get a good full frontal - too much light reflecting when I took the pics. It's raining outside now. These are as close as it gets... I also took this "driver's eye" view of the cabin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 ... I thought hard about this, so don't think that I`m saying this lightly: That car looks worse than the 1 Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 it does look like a 1 series with a boot, the Focus saloon comes to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Agreed. You can see the family resemblance. I reckon the Focus saloon looks very American. It`s not my cup of tea, but it`s not deeply offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted April 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Nice extra review I liked the handling and the engine most, but this wasn't the diesel. I am not a fan of 4 cylinder diesels I have to say. I have driven the previous 320d and wasn't a fan of the engine in that or the 2.0 TDI in the A3 (See previous review.) However the 330 and 325 engines are sublime, a real class act, add to that a great chassis to throw down a back road and you have a great car. However as you mentioned I am not really a fan of the interior its just a bit bland to me at least without i-drive but then if you add that you get a poor interface to control the car and a hefty addition to the cost of the car. Not good either way. On the looks they are growing on me more its not a bad looking car but the rear Mitsubishi light aka clusters are just not right. After seeing the pictures of the new Lexus IS250 I think its better looking inside and out by quite a margin and has a couple of engines that are easily the equal on paper at least. With a diesel that will be 174 BHP and 300lb ft it certainly has the 320d beaten, will have to see what its like to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Don't like it in profile and certainly don't like the interior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Well the 320d has won every single head to head in recent car magazines - and by quite some margin. The standard interior is poor though, I agree, but it's a bit better in the flesh than those pictures make it look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Thanks for the taking the shots of the BMW TuffLittleUnit It's a bit of a minger on the outside isnt it! But look at the state of that interior...i'd rather be sat in a ford focus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Well the 320d has won every single head to head in recent car magazines - and by quite some margin. [/ QUOTE ] the only conclusion i draw from that is that all car magazine reviewers are narrow-minded, ego-centric twirps that forget the other 5000 reasons that people buy a car, besides handling round corners FFS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 From what I hear I`d say the BMW has an awful lot in it`s favour. I don't even mind the interior by the looks of it. But the exterior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigR Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Didn't get a good full frontal - too much light reflecting when I took the pics. It's raining outside now. These are as close as it gets... I also took this "driver's eye" view of the cabin. [/ QUOTE ] How bland does that look Don't think for the kind of money bmw ask i would ever consider an interior that looks as bad as that. IMO its just so plain looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLittleUnit Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 [ QUOTE ] From what I hear I`d say the BMW has an awful lot in it`s favour. I don't even mind the interior by the looks of it. [/ QUOTE ] I meant to post an updated view now the car's gone back but when the delivery guy picked it up he claimed I'd "kerbed" BOTH front wheels which left me mightily annoyed. He was correct in stating that both wheels had tiny scratches on the rims but I'd never noticed them on delivery. At collection there were no marks on the tyres which stick out a little from the wheels and said delivery guy couldn't really explain why all the nice black tyre dressing was intact if I'd kerbed it (from the earlier comments you'll see just about all the driving was motorway and you don't get many kerbs on the M62 in my experience). The car had won me over a little more up until this point but the accusation that I'd done the damage really annoyed me (it's covered by company insurance so no skin off my nose other than the suggestion of incompetence). So, a word of warning to anyone taking an extended test drive - check the car very carefully when you take delivery, particularly the wheels and lower paintwork which you get a very casual tour of on delivery but are scrutinised in the finest detail on collection. If I'd been a little less keen to get in the car then maybe I'd have spotted the slight marks to the wheels. Now I've calmed down a little I need to update a few of my first impressions. I was very wrong about the new diesel engine. It does accelerate very well when you get used to it and it also becomes very quiet and smooth when cruising. Like all other diesels I know, it still rattles and chugs at low revs and very noticeably for the first few minutes. My earlier comments about handling were meant to be favourable and I've nothing to add there - it became engaging to drive by myself but not for the family who got rolled around quite a bit inside (we didn't hit any kerbs though!). I'm normally quite an economical driver but I struggled to get the car into 6th gear very often - even on the motorways. Possibly a familiarity thing. Still, I wouldn't say that I found the car "fun" to drive, not like the Sportback DSG which I found immensely enjoyable (but I'm guessing the novelty of DSG will fade pretty quickly). The photos I posted give a good portrayal of the car's looks both inside and out. Re the interior - this is a very light grey which makes things look bright and spacious inside but it also looks a bit cheap and nasty; I suspect that a black interior may provide a more upmarket feel. I found a couple of niggles. I really struggled with the indicators, despite having initially been quite impressed with the overtaking function. When actually turning (i.e. longer signalling time required) the indicator stalk doesn't physically click up or down and I frequently found that when I tried to manually cancel the indicator I ended up invoking the "lane change" function (3 rapid flashes) in the OPPOSITE direction which must have really annoyed the people behind me e.g. I'd signal left to exit a roundabout and if the steering wheel didn't turn enough to automatically cancel the indicator I'd end up signalling right when I tried to cancel it manually. May be a case of RTFM but there wasn't an obvious solution. The second niggle is a concern about build quality. I found that the very practical storage tray in the boot was also quite noisy - it rattled and squeaked an awful lot and if this was my car I'd be tempted to remove it. The other thing was that on the final day, I started to get a very regular and annoying squeak from what sounded like the rear pillars - a really odd location. It was one of those horrible high pitched plastic squeaks - a little like fingernails scratching on polystyrene. It never really went away and left me thinking that something wasn't fitted very well in the car's rear interior. So in summary do I regret ordering the Sportback - not a chance. The BMW simply isn't my cup of tea and certainly didn't justify the additional expense for me (on the Sportback I get DSG, OpenSky, bigger alloys and various other options and it'll still cost me about £20 per month less than the 320D SE). Additionally I'm looking for a more relaxed drive. After more time in the car I can see that some people will grow to love driving the new 3 series but for me it's all just a bit too spartan inside and that horrible fake aluminium "plank" across the dash really irritated me every time I looked at it. I guess if I added another few grands worth of extras this may well address my concerns but it would extend beyond what I'd be prepared to pay for a compact saloon - with that sort of investment I could have the A6 SE which is a very well specced car. Pro's: - engine performs well - good fuel economy - great handling - SE is quite well specced - good price as a company vehicle (contribution and tax) - front looks stunning Con's - interior not to my taste and feels basic - exterior is ugly/dull from some angles - although the drive is excellent it's not that much better than the competition - seat adjustment is basic - 16" wheels on a £25k+ sports saloon? - quality of assembly and materials (esp cloth seats) is questionable Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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