AntW Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 right, time to utilize the collective TSN might and ask for some advice. I am helpdesk manager for a mid sized IT company. A while ago our resident IT chappy left for greener pastures and the IT support was left to me and a colleague. No problems there so far. Then the mail server broke! long and short of it, its Groupwise 5 and a novell network which neither of us knew in depth. In comes a consultant to fix and upgrade the mail server. The first question the consultant asks is where are the backups as he wants to take one. Backups, at this point we find that the departed IT chap had left everyone in the dark about backups not working for 3+ months So we get the backups working eventually, and only this week are we happy that we have a full backup of all systems. So back to the email problem, Novell, Groupwise, 2 netpilots and 2 linux mailservers - and no one understands how it all works together as it was set up years ago and 2 IT guys ago! We turn to our boss, lets call him Bob, and explain the situation. Basically, let us start from scratch on network we know - Windows based. Surprisingly Bob agrees to this and we get 2 brand new servers with Exchange server 2003. The company is surviving on luck as the occasional email does reach escape velocity from the 2 linux mail servers and gets to its destination, but as a whole we have been running on webmail for 4 weeks. Between us we get the migration from groupwise to exchange planned, setup, and even do some tests on Virtual Machines... things are looking good and we planned to do the rollout next weekend. Then... Bob comes in and drops this bombshell "I don't want to use outlook, what other email clients talk to exchange". Bob dislikes Microsoft products as he feels they are security risk. Explaining that fully configured they are no more risky that other setups gets us nowhere So now he wants to use Thunderbird, fine as clients go, but not so easy to talk to exchange, we will lose folder structures and all sorts of problems So now we are back to square one. Why not go above Bob and his terrible decisions and illogical behaviour... Bob is the CEO. so... anyone in the north west with a vacancy for a career shifting helpdesk manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Sit Bob down, explain you understand his reservations about M$, but remind him you're the IT expert. Reasonably and in non-technical terms, lay out for him why his decision is a bad one and tell him if he insists, then you'll acquiesce, but that you wanted to make sure he was aware. Take him to lunch to have this chat. - He'll see it your way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted October 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I'm no expert, but know what I am doing and do know more than Bob (luckily). Thats pretty much the approach I was planning on taking, minus the lunch as that just won't work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBM Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Don't ask him, tell him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 If he dislikes Microsoft products because they are a security risk then why is Exchange OK but Outlook not OK? Afterall it's the exchange server which needs to be secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Resign. If your boss wants to dictate IT policy and is a sterotypical 'Microsoft are a security risk' bloke, then he's a ****er. There, I felt let getting that off my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted October 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 thanks for the replies so far guys Daz: exactly! thats the kind of illogical decision making process that goes on in his head. This all occured after he had agreed and signed off the initial purchase of the kit and fully knew how we were going to do the rollout. MrMe: thats also exactly how I feel right now, we have a meeting on Monday, and I am going to put all points across fairly, and if he continues to spout crap then I will be moving away (but not without finding another job first) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 He sounds like a right muppet, promoted to his level of incompetence and all that. Put Notes in instead that will sort him out no problem. And get a sametime server in whilst your at it they are great fun for any company to have. Have a look around for other jobs but have the satisfaction of trying to sort this out. Thunderbird is fine as an app to play with at home but is certainly not up to being used in a large corporate just yet, and Thunderbird also has its flaws. In fact find some evidence of a few Thunderbird issues and present them to him, Microsoft aren't great but they are having to take the threats seriously even if they seem to take an age to sort relatively simple issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyPence Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Could always go with Lotus Notes. The IT boss of a good friend considered our companies move to Notes from Outlook as a downgrade but after using notes for a few months now I quite like it. Many companies use Notes, take a look at see what ya think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 we use Lotus notes at work and i find it crap, and awquard to navigate. Outlook all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Exchange 2003 (come to that any version of Exchange since about 5.0) will support IMAP or POP3, virtually all mail clients can use these protocols. As a chouce go with IMAP much better than POP3. But moving away from an MAPI client i.e Outlook will result in limited collaboration. So no delegation, no free-busy for appointments, no server side rules, limited public folders, etc, etc. This whole issue of MS being insecure is a fallicy, it can be a secure as you want it. The problem with MS in the past was, make it simple out of the box for the uneducated. This is now changing, and to some extent the fact that linux and Mac is becoming more popular is helping MS becuase they have just as many security issues and bug fixes, just the user base is much lower. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 The problem with a lot os MS products, or rather the problem with a lot of MS Product implementers , is that they install it straight off the CD and never customise it to the environment. The off the cd build will be as flexible as possible to allow more people to get it working 'straight out of the box'. The amount of customisation/securing that goes into our Citrix/AD/Exchange server builds has to be seen to be believed - but then again that's why we do a lot of secure sites I suppose .... or we do that because we do secure sites Ah hell you know what I mean I find the whole 'MS is insecure' thingy quite tiring. If it's insecure - you've done it wrong. Admittedly MS don't always help themselves... By making products so that they do work off the CD (pretty much) then any old numpty implements it with massive holes in security - open mail relay anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aal234 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Can you not use the outlook web access feature of exchange 2003? It presents you with quite a close copy of the outlook client but using internet explorer. We have just started using it at work. Not sure what its limitations are but its closer to outlook than thunderbird. I would make the assumption that it will be a bit more secure than standard outlook. Hell tell him thats what you are doing then stick outlook on everyone elses machine except for his. Doubt he will even notice! As for looking for something new if you have set up exchange from the ground up you are probably now in a good position to move. Use that experience to get an exchange related job. Most are pretty good money. I had a friend do similar with SMS and he got a 10k pay rise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Mac I know exactly what you mean. Remember IIS 4.0 between service packs, every hot-fix should have been applied individually and then a reboot, this was before Qchain. But MS engineers hardly ever did this cos they just realise. IIS 6.0 is a lot more secure out of the box back can be improved. I have to go back to work this week and send a mail out to all our wonderful developers that have downloaded and are using the redemption DLL to get round the Outlook Object Guard, will these people never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Go with Lotus Notes. However, I think the bill for that will scare him. I suppose, as long as you customise AND stay upto date with ALL MS updates, you should be OK. I, personally prefer Notes. Oh, and once done, get some procedures in place, arrange for Off iste sotrage of back-ups and make sure more than 1 person knows about some of the important IT stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 One other thing do practice restores every so often as you want to know how to do them if the worst happens one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 well he wasn't in today, so it looks like tomorrow will be crunch time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Fill his inbox with filth, then make a copy, then if he threatens to sack you, show his missus ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted November 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 right... today went okay. The biggest fear was outlook being vulnerable. Once I outweighed the pros and cons of going exchange/outlook versus exchange/something else he became more convinced. Especially as I have stressed how vital it is that exchange is secure regardless of email client Although he did have the cheek to say the old system had been solid for 15 years... and wasn't too impressed when I said it had been broken for 7 weeks! Ah well, time to get some Exchange knowledge under my belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Post away mate I work with Exchange 5.5 and Exchange 2003 every day. Maybe better in the IT forum. Just remember Exchange is a transation based file system. The transaction logs should be on different physical drives to the database. Also check databases daily this is the process that clears the transaction logs and also reads every page of the database to ensure their is no corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted November 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 dear god... Both servers configured, ready to implement Friday night/Saturday morning. Plan for client updates all sorted and tested so we know exactly what will be done when. and... Bob: "I don't like the names of those servers, can you rename them" So, rebuiding them tomorrow as I don't feel comfortable with the renaming utility for Server 2003 and Exchange server. oh, and the server names: Vader and Skywalker... I mean come on, what was wrong with them. This is after he asked us what we were calling them 3 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Time for CYA emails me thinks. Really not a good idea calling servers by names, much easier to use location, function, index. Boring as hell but no arguments over names. BTW no problem renaming servers as long as they are not DC/GC's. The name will resolve to an IP address or SID so the name is just a friendly representation, just so long as it is unique for NetBios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randellp Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 I wonder how many servers in how many IT departments, in how many galaxies are called Vader & Skywalker! I wonder, do you have a bank of file servers named after hobbits too?!! Our place uses the location/function/ref system, but as a treat we let the the guy who builds them the honour in giving them "nicknames" which also goes into the config. Needless to say, there are a lot of sci-fi characters in there.... BTW, your boss sounds like a complete tw*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdiesel Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Homer, Marge, and Bart at one of my previous Day Care Centres (Well thats what it felt like anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntW Posted November 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 well seeing as we are only a small company location could be pinned down to the room going to be an even smaller company in the new year as well, and previous track record for redundancies is higher salaries first oh, the servers are now renamed "companyname1" and "companyname2" and Bob is happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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