Job advice

[rjgreen4]

I am in a dilemma at the moment,

I work for an industrial refrigeration/air conditioning company and have worked there for 2.5 years from finishing university (Did an engineering degree – Sheffield), the company is only small (£1.2m turnover ~ 50%GP).

My role within the company is a sales engineer where I have to outsource new business, design industrial chill stores, air conditioning systems and process cooling systems, then arrange for our engineers to install/commission the systems.

I would say that I am quite successful as last year I brought in £280k+ in sales @ 41%GP and prior to that I did'nt have any experience in refrigeration/air conditioning or sales.

Recently I have been coming in to work and sitting infront of my PC and just wanting the day to end, I am so bored it is untrue.

It could be that I have not had a holiday for 5 months and that my holiday entitlement is only 20 days, of which 3 are taken up during the Christmas break and 5 days were taken up in March as paternity leave.

I aspire to run my own company and even though I work for my dad (he is the MD) I have no real desire to run the current company when he retires in 5 years.

I have just applied for an executive MBA that starts in January and I am hoping this will give me the tools to look at utilising the current business model (with different products/services) and hopefully moving the company (a company ) forward.

I just don’t want to wait 3 years hoping that the MBA will solve my problems, I am in a real slumb and don’t know how to get out of it.

I watch all of the tv programmes like dragons den, and making a million, always thinking to myself with hard work its not really that hard as I have effectively made £114k in my first year.

I am in a real pickle as I feel like just packing up my bags and going but I think this will hurt my dads feelings as I think he wants me to take over.

Need some advice!!!

[Wallachie]

If your Dad is anything like mine, he will understand and accept whatever decision you make for your future. My Dad runs his own business in N Ireland, and as much as he would like either myself or my brother to take it over, he knows we never will and has accepted that fact.

I am sure if you're honest with your Dad he will understand, we can't all want the same thing. He may well be disappointed, but at the end of the day your Dad will mainly want what makes you happy.

If you don't take the business over, will there be a family successor to take over when he retires?

[rjgreen4]

My sister works for Barclays in Canary wharf, so zero engineering knowledge and my older brother is an IT boff.

The company has been trading for over 75 years.

Probably just need a holiday and recoup some focus

[Frodo]

You need to take a holiday every quarter to refresh and re-focus. The MBA will be good for a background but it will be very theoretical and not necessarily applicable in practice. Experience is everything. Main points for a business has to be Marketing (Sales is just one element) and Finance.

[rjgreen4]

Good advice,

I feel that the MBA will give me the ability to implement strategies that can assist in moving the company forward.

The main problem I have is that I get frustrated by the lack of leadership from the top and that the lowest people in the organisation (service engineers) seem to be ruling the roost as they know they could walk out at any point and cause trouble as it is very hard to get fridge engineers.

The aforementioned high levels of GP are sucked up by the high staffing levels as the company has a soft approach to keeping people on, what I mean is that there are about 3 people on £25k+ who do sod all, due to retire in 3 years but the company is scared of possible tribunals if they make them redundant, I mean these people have their heads in magazines and feet on the desk all day - see what I mean lack of leadership and control.

They don't listen to an inexperienced graduate as they know everything with 40 years in the trade, these people have also in the past attempted to start their own business's up and failed in a big way, so the sympathy card was played and we re-employed them.

I have a lot of issues and would run the company in such a different way, paying more attention to obviously sales, marketing and lean financing.

There has been no upward shift in sales over the last 10 years, i.e. turned over £1m then and still do the same now and with spiralling operating costs and wages, it has inherently affected the bottom line.

Since I have been here I have developed a website using HTML, Macromedia flash and get around 100 hits per week, prior to that I had never build a website, brought in the sales listed before and created good relationships with some extremely large companies.

I feel that I have too much to rant and rave about and would probably be better writing everything down at home and see how my suggestion would affect the current business and whether or not they would be beneficial to making the business bigger and better.

Idea 1 – would be to sort out the leadership and the staffing issues, get registered with an agency and have staff available – I know that agencies cost the earth and that there is usually a sting in the tail of you take the person on post term, but we will get a better return on a good engineer than any agency costs.

Idea 2 – Make the old fogies redundant or hound them with work and specific deadlines, seek legal advice on disciplinary procedures with poor performance.

Making them redundant will significantly affect the cash flow – I mean the company will be £75k in salary and NI contributions better off.

Idea 3 – Utilise some of the money from idea 2 to look at marketing and getting our company name out there.

Idea 4 – take on more sales engineers to look at increasing the turnover.

See what I mean, I think it is more than a holiday I need.

[Rustynuts]

Have a holiday, mate.

I just read all of this, and the change from your first post to your last post is significant. You've gone from disliking your job and wanting to leave, to spouting ideas for the company to move forward. Just by talking it over on a forum. Have a holiday first, then talk to your dad and get yourself promoted up to a position to do something about your [the firms] problems and get stuck in. 3 staff taking the piss is ridiculous, and you're having to pay their wages indirectly with the business you generate. Get them doing something or get rid. Look after the engineers at ground level though, they're the ones who actually turn all your efforts into money. If they're good at what they do, make them happy with the way they do it and the benefits they get, and keep them busy. Can't go wrong.

Talk to dad, and get climbing them steps to the top.

[simonb]

I agree mate - take a break.

Tough one though.

One thing to consider is what your current workload is like. I hate being either too busy that i know not everything will be done, or the opposite where i have nothing to do. In all honesty, of my 8 hour day - if i can keep myself going quite easily at a calm pace for 6 hours, then i'm happy - the additional 2 is spent making tea, getting rid of the aforementioned tea in a processed state, and posting on TSN!!

This is my optimum - everyone else may be different. It may be that this is how you are a present. Have a long hard think before making the move or making any decision. If you do go, and then change your mind, it'll be tough going back - especially to the other guys working there - they'll lose respect for you.

I'd do as Rustynuts says though - firm foundations to work off and grow the business. I'm guessing you're quite young, mid 20s say, about time the company stepped up a gear no doubt into the IT age a bit more - you're probably the man for the job! Go for it!!

[cruiser647]

Take a holiday, then get a different job(s) in areas where you do not know too much. (Finance/IT/HR/bit of factory floor work if poss etc)

In a few years (say 5 max), get yourself back to the family business with the experience you have gained.

Will help you along a lot. And you will have more respect from peers/colleagues/underlings as you will have been elsewhere and not with the family firm all the time.

You might be refreshed and ready to run the family business and have more workable ideas??????? and big things for the company. Your dad will understand, and will that it is good for the firm

Just my 2 pence worth.

[theduisbergkid]

[ QUOTE ]

I would say that I am quite successful as last year I brought in £280k+ in sales @ 41%GP

I watch all of the tv programmes like dragons den, and making a million, always thinking to myself with hard work its not really that hard as I have effectively made £114k in my first year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but get real here. If you brought in £280k at c.40% profit, thats not a heap of money in any industry. How much of this would have come in anyway (be honest) ? Is your new business snowballing ? Consider your employment costs. It probably costs the company (your dad) £60k odd just to employ you ! (car, fuel, salary, expenses, liabilities, insurance, overheads)...

Go and prove yourself in a tougher environment instead of daydreaming about making a million. You'll learn more working elsewhere that for swinging the lead at your Fathers expense.

I know this sounds harsh, and you'll probably tell me to feck off, but you did ask for advice !

[Chav]

I wonder if he'll ask again though?

[UBM]

RJ - Buy a new car - works for most of us!

[rjgreen4]

Not sure what you mean by new business and snowballing, I have mentioned that the firm has been operating for over 75 years.

If i had set a company up with no prior experience in the industry and had gone out and turned over £280k at 40% in the first year and taking into account that my client list is new to the company and has been 100% outsourced by myself, then I would be reasonably happy.

Regarding sales I know that once my portfolio of clients, doubles, trebles and quadruples, providing I stick to my current plan of end user sales and good support, and stay away form the jokers, otherwise known as engineering consultants and mechanical services, I would think that my contribution to the company is a good one.

I have seen the P+L for some companies in the same industry as ours that turn over ~£7m and the directors remuneration for the last 3 years has been in the order of £250k +£800k bonus's.

I don't want to create an empire as you would have to answer to board members and possible get ousted when the firm under performs.

I would hardly call it swingin lead either when I have attracted clients to the firm like Shell, Tetrapak, Schreiber and currently have an order intake that will double last years figures for myself.

All I was saying in the first couple of posts are that i am getting frustrated with work, wether its the lack of leadership, financial waste with keeping poor performing staff on, 20 days holiday when 3 have to be taken during the Christmas break - so infact thats 17 and I had to use holiday as paternity leave, not had a holiday in 6 months.

I think based on the aforementioned I am allowed to feel the way I am and have opted to do something about it by doing the MBA in January and taking on new challenges.

[rjgreen4]

regarding the car I have changed the car every year up till now, will change the A4 again in march 06 like I did last from the 3.2 to the 2.0T Quattro Sline.

[mmj]

If you really have lots of ideas and can envisage becoming enthusiastic about the company again. Maybe draw up a strategic business plan and ask for a meeting with your father, take on more responsibilities and maybe your father can take more of a backseat.

I feel that you are in quite an enviable position now get a grip, and appreciate what you have.

Oh and good luck!

[M3Will]

The thing is, you are trading under your fathers established company name, which as you say, has been trading for a long time. I think you are somewhat mistaken if you think attracting new business into a completely new venture would be as easy to accomplish. 50% of new businesses fail in their first year.

As for your workforce, I felt like you when I was wet behind the ears and fresh from uni. Give yourself 15yrs in the same line of work and see how you feel then. I'm not saying that slackers should be kept on, I'm just saying that you should see things from all angles before judging. Holidays? Welcome to the working world. Why dont you talk to your dad about your ideas/issues?

[Sponge]

I agree with the above - You say your Dad may retire in 5 years? Well that isn't a very long time. Combined with your ideas on the company's future, I'd sit down, work out the details and put them on paper. Then have a meeting with your dad, show him your plans and ask for the opportunity to implement them. You might not have any desire to take over the company now, but if you had more say in it's running and things work out to plan, you may change your mind and enjoy the opportunity.

[steve2]

what you also have to bear in mind is does your dad want to sell the company when he retires and could you afford to buy it? I bought out my old bosses with my mate 5 years ago and am still paying it off (hence the 2000 A4) but even though there are a lot more hassles as an owner it was the best move i made(apart from marrying the wife)

[rjgreen4]

my father has already said that in 5 years its mine, but i will have to obviously have to prove capable.

Things seem to have got better over the last two weeks, sat down with my dad over the weekend and he has passed a couple of projects over to me, one being in Califirnia and the other in Toulouse, he has admitted that there has to be a gradual introduction to his clients so that there is a smooth change over in time to come.

I think I was in a bit of a lull, getting home from work every night about 7 ish cooking food whilst the other half puts the 9 month old to bed and before you know it it is 9 pm and there has been no significant achievement.

I also think that the lack of excersie has significantly made me a lazier person so following the comments in this post I actually pulled my finger out and joined my local athletics club, as I have competed at regional level for a local running club since being a teenager, but there have been other factore affecting this in the last 3 years albeit, graduating from uni, buying a house, getting married, and having a little boy, oh and three new audi's.

Stability seems to be heading my way, although my legs are absolutely killing after my first traing session last thursday and will have to keep it up as I feel mentally much stronger and seem to be looking forward to new projects at work and work in general.