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WiFi over a long distance.....


Riz
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Hi there folks, hope you can help me (not in the women department but that would be nice too) tongue.gif

I have a few questions for anybody who knows about long distance WiFi and supply of Internet to over 1000 users within this range?

What type of hardware would i require and where from?

Would a BT T1 line be enough and what about security for the users... it would be 100% for internet useage only.

Would i require a server? or just a big 1000 port router with a big high dish? confused.gif

How would i be able to restrict the useage for each individual user only?

What liecences would i require off the council?

What type of cost am i looking at?

Help.....

Thank you.

Riz 169144-ok.gif

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I have no ideas about the answers, but I guess a few more questions might help some techies help you...

1. What distance are you talking about ?

2. Any barriers (solid walls, RF interference, Power lines etc.)

3. A T1 could be enough if each user just requires a simple client/server connection using dumb terminals, (such as using an AS400 etc.) but what exactly will these users be doing?

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[ QUOTE ]

I have no ideas about the answers, but I guess a few more questions might help some techies help you...

1. What distance are you talking about ?

2. Any barriers (solid walls, RF interference, Power lines etc.)

3. A T1 could be enough if each user just requires a simple client/server connection using dumb terminals, (such as using an AS400 etc.) but what exactly will these users be doing?

169144-ok.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Mmmm well its dependant upon cost... a mile should be enough....

Yes well i would be trying to get the signal into a student block with approx 1000 students... so obviously this would require a WiFi bridge....

It would be only used for the internet and nothing more.... no internal networking etc...

How much would a T1 line cost? confused.gif

I`ve found a US company which specialises in the hardware but im not sure how difficult it would be to have all this setup.

I`m thinking about doing a trial run on the apartment blocks where i live.....

It would mean selling up and moving back home with my parents but in the longrun it could work out.

Riz 169144-ok.gif

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1000 people WOULD NOT be cheap, and a mile is going to be pushing the cost up even more.

Knowing what good quality networking equipment costs I reckon you'd be looking at tens of thousands of pounds and you'd need a seriously beefy internet connection at the end of it, maybe even more than T1 (which is already pretty damn expensive!)

Then of course you need the knowledge and expertise to set it all up, be able to maintain it 24/7, etc.

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Yep I'd say the same.. plus with that many users you might be better looking at including a cashing system as well to take the burden off the internet connection.

Some UNIs have done this to reduce the line costs to excellent effect.

As for the wireless set-up costs. Its very dependant on the size of building and the coverage required. It might need multiple aerials / repeaters to get the job done.

Do you have any idea of the costs involved.. or a budget. ?

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Well if i could get a office within one of the buildings as a main inlet for the leased line (demon do a 4mb - 155mb line) then branch off this to the other buildings using a external WiFi arial and bridges etc.

I can get this kit for about £500 approx

[ QUOTE ]

Non-Line-Of-Sight (tree-penetrating) wireless point-to-point bridge bundle kit. Bridges two points up to 4-5 mile*. Includes a total of 30 feet of coax cable between the antenna and the access point for both sides of the bridge.

This bundle includes:

* 2 (two) D-Link 108 Mbps Wireless Bridges

* 2 (two) 13.5 dBi Circular Polarized Antenna (including mounting hardware)

* 2 (two) 20-foot outdoor coax cables

* 2 (two) lightning arrestors

* 2 (two) 10-foot indoor cables

2 (two) PoE adapters

[/ QUOTE ] Then i would require a WiFi router to cope with the users.... could a standard 108mbps router cope with this?

Then on each building have AP`s on each floor if required to keep the signal flowing....

The initial investment/buget would probably be high and i might not breakeven in the first year or so.. but its the longterm side of things im looking towards....

If i can get a partner then that just makes things easier.

Riz smirk.gif

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I think something like that would struggle to support more than 20 users or so.

When working at IFA we were using half a dozen Cisco Aironet 1200-series access points worth £500 each to cover a 200sq metre stand with up to around 100-200 people using it at a time and connectivity still wasn't perfect.

Then at the back end we had a pair of Windows 2003 Servers (one running just as a backup) and a selection of Cisco routers (each worth about £4000).

You can't just scale up with more bridges, latency and packet loss will make it almost unusable, really you need each access point connected to the main network via ethernet and good quality routers behind it all. You must be able to limit peoples connection speeds too otherwise one person running bit torrent with a full upload speed will flood your internet connection and bring the whole thing to a halt.

Even if you can fudge it together with consumer equipment you won't have the capacity or the control to make it a maintainable, usable, system.

Why not use Wimax instead? Thats designed for providing broadband over a large area.

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[ QUOTE ]

Why not use Wimax instead? Thats designed for providing broadband over a large area.

[/ QUOTE ] Mmm couldnt find anything on this in the UK, found a German telecom company which uses it though. confused.gif

I always have plan 2 to hand, which is to try and get permission from my maintenance company for the apartments and WiFi hardware placement.

Total apartments around 45-55 max.

All within a short distance of each other....

Riz smirk.gif

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Riz:

I don't mean to be defeatest on this one, but simply forget it. Please! There's a company in Edwinstowe who started doing this for the people of Edwinstowe around 4 years ago, as broadband wasn't available. The service is terrible, it's forever going wrong, when it rains you lose the connection... it's diabolical. They have spent thousands upon thousands on this project and although now (after 3 years of operation and god only knows how much planning and development) they are still far, far away from it being reliable, let alone perfect.

You are getting into seriously expensive territory (you need to have CISCO everything for this to be reliable, then there's your back end servers etc etc) and you are going to dig a very, very big hole that you're not going to be able to get out of.

Without trying to sound patronising, the fact that you're asking questions such as "Do I need a Server" and "Will a standard 108Mbps router do the job" means you're really not aware of quite what you'll be delving into. And if you don't know that, I think you'll die when you see the outlay costs. And then the costs when it doesn't work, which it won't.

This is 1000x harder than you think is it (from your post) and then even if you DO get it set up, trust me, it won't work properly. Definately not a good business venture!

Sorry to be harsh, but it's better to know straight up!

Ben

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[ QUOTE ]

jump.gif Yes i think ive kind of open a big can of worms....

Why cant anything be simple these days...

Thanks for all your input guys!

Riz 169144-ok.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Go check out the SveaSoft website.

This guy has written new firmware for Linksys boxes (and others) that allows you to set them up as a wifi telco/ISP and so on. From memory the site has a pile of war stories and "how tos" as well (but then again, I am blonde and it's dinner time here).

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I've been there and done that with rural broadband. We were one of the first to actually go live and provide a service.

You're going to face plenty of problems - the main one being bandwidth. It is difficult to restrict what people can push out onto the air. Yes, you can restrict the Internet connection, but that doesn't help the radio bandwidth. Plus signals at 2GHz+ don't like any obstacles at all, including rain. Also you'll face hassle from people running their own access points for other purposes which steal 'your' bandwidth.

For the most part our system provided broadband to those that couldn't get it for 18 months (which was always the plan). The best recommendation I can give you is don't look to wireless for this project and don't underestimate the hassle involved with running an ISP that serves end-users.

sportifs2.gif

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I agree. The boxes are pretty good - it's the cowboys who are full of dung.gif that seem to pop up to install and configure them that are the major causes of problems.

Lots of "certified" and claimed Cisco expertise out there, but it's rare to find someone who REALLY knows their stuff (and they are usually a CCIE, and also a Cisco employee).

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