rjgreen4 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/bp102may06/ anyone heard of this and will it be any good for an S4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Doe Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Mr G, good spot, not sure what to make of it but it might be worth a shot if you can find an outlet selling it? "It is initially being sold at just half a dozen service stations close to popular trackday venues". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 £2.42 a litre!!! "thud" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynas Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 A few tanks would see gains.. definately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 How, exactly, did you work that one out? Broader discussion here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynas Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Because running optimax is exactly the same. You don't get instant oomph from optimax. You have to run a few tanks of it before it starts to have any effect. Cleans all the sh!t out and aids responsiveness. My original statemtent, "A few tanks would see gains.. definately. " is not untrue. Running a higher octane fuel over time has been proven to increase repsonsiveness after reverting back to original fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hmm, not as I understand it - if your car isn't mapped (specifically with regard to timing advance) to take advantage of the higher octane fuel (standard UK mapping takes 95/98 into consideration) then where can the gains come from? Standard maps focus on pulling timing back as a precaution, rather than pushing it forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 EMU's tend to be able to 'sniff' the octane levels and adjust accordingly, automatically. Problem is the moment you have a full tank of Tesco's finest the EMU will re-tune accordingly. OK for people willing to spend £11 a gallon, but who would do that, when it represents maybe 2% increase in response and engine power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynas Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] EMU's tend to be able to 'sniff' the octane levels and adjust accordingly, automatically. Problem is the moment you have a full tank of Tesco's finest the EMU will re-tune accordingly. OK for people willing to spend £11 a gallon, but who would do that, when it represents maybe 2% increase in response and engine power? [/ QUOTE ] What he said. If you have a higher octane fuel in your car, the ECU picks this up and adjusts itself to this fuel. Anyhow, I'm not starting a battle, just sayin', lol. I wouldn't pay £2.40 odd a litre. That's mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Assuming that the ECU knows how to handle higher octane fuel. I'm sure the ECU knows what to do to handle 95 or 98 octane but 102? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynas Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Who knows...? Not me. I would imagine you could be right limited at 98, but then why would they develop a fuel at 102 octane if cars wouldn't benefit from it? Speaking of ECU's, when you get a service, do they update the ECU to the latest revision??? My turbo seems to be kicking in at lower RPM's... was 1800rpm ish now 15-600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will22 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I wonder if I put it into my lawnmower would it make it go faster because at the moment I can only get about 8mph Although that's probably quick enough cus when I was cutting the lawan the other night I hit a tree while trying to light a fag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynas Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Get it chipped with a miltek system. 25 mph no probs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 EMUs? ECU's don't 'sniff' petrol, although that sounds pretty cool, knock sensors detect knock and as a result the ECU retards your timing - which would be how it would detect 95 RON fuel. What I mean is that what is detected is not the Octane of the fuel but rather the knock that lower octane fuel may cause. Hence, there has to be a ceiling value on the amount that the timing 'creeps' over time, otherwise the value would be limitless. For UK cars this will be set at or around 98 more so than 102. I'm saying your car can't "creep" up to the levels of timing required to take advantage of the 102 RON fuel and its resistance to detonate/knock. On my S3 I have the Revo SPS3 which allows me to manually advance my timing - added to the fact that the remap already does this - meaning I can at least have a chance of taking advantage of the +/- 100RON fuel mix that I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 102 RON fuel has been developed for the trackday market where there are an increasing number of highly tuned road and race engines that can benefit from this - hence the initial distribution targeting circuits and the silly price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I wonder what insurance companies think of this move??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 They'd probably laugh if you told them you'd paid £140 to fill up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBM Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I can see it now - "Any mods to declare sir"! "Yes - I'm using 102 RON fuel!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 ...and I'd like to declare the Nitrogen in my tyres! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Higher octane wil presumably boost both HP and Tourque though wont it? Potentially by significant amounts (turbo cars)? I wonder if they will start testing fuel? Afterall it is potentially another way for them to get out of paying up....!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Not necessarily - that's what I'm trying to get at. The principal advantage of higher octane fuel is that it helps to prevent detonation. Normally, running more advanced timing (which gives a significant performance gain) leads to detonation/knock. Higher octane fuel helps to prevent this happening (I'm on shaky ground on this bit) - I think its due to the way it prevents "pre-combustion". So....if higher octane fuel helps to prevent detonation/knock then you can advance the timing further to take advantage of this and that's where the performance comes from. The other thing I'm getting at is that ECU's detect fuel "downwards" and only slowly creep back up again to a certain point. If you don't specifically tell the car to run X degrees of timing advance (i.e. via a remap or manual adjustment) the car won't know to advance the timing enough to take advantage of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] EMUs? ECU's don't 'sniff' petrol, although that sounds pretty cool, knock sensors detect knock and as a result the ECU retards your timing - which would be how it would detect 95 RON fuel. What I mean is that what is detected is not the Octane of the fuel but rather the knock that lower octane fuel may cause. Hence, there has to be a ceiling value on the amount that the timing 'creeps' over time, otherwise the value would be limitless. For UK cars this will be set at or around 98 more so than 102. I'm saying your car can't "creep" up to the levels of timing required to take advantage of the 102 RON fuel and its resistance to detonate/knock. On my S3 I have the Revo SPS3 which allows me to manually advance my timing - added to the fact that the remap already does this - meaning I can at least have a chance of taking advantage of the +/- 100RON fuel mix that I use. [/ QUOTE ] Mollox is da man All this 'your ECU has to learn' malarkey Do you guys know how many times a second a modern ECU will check for knock? Neither do I but I bet it's hundreds........ As soon as knock is detected the ignition will be retarded. So when you add your 98 RON the car knows instantly and will allow the most advance. As Mollox says on a non race normally aspirated engine like the S4 I very much doubt putting anything higher than 98 will make a difference (I bet a re-map would allow more advance though). However on a tuned forced induction engine you will be able to take full advantage of the higher octane - More boost, more ignition advance and more power before the dreaded knock. IIRC EVO had good results on 102 RON 'Race Gas' in their recent fuel test, using a 2.0t Golf GTi. So it would be interesting to know how much advance the manufacturers will allow. BUB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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