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110 TDI Diesel pump


20valver
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A mate of mine has a '98 110 TDI that has failed it's MOT BIIIIGGGG time on emmisions. When I say Big time, the tester said 43 times over the limit. He has been told the diesel pump is probably to blame at around £6k to replace (which sounds like a pile of cow doee to me as I can't belive it would cost that much). Flush.gif

Has anyone had this problem or had a pump replaced etc?

I know nowt about soot chuckers!

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The pump wont be near to 6K. I had one changed on a 95 Passat 1Z engine, i think it was about £700 including fitting at a dealers (but i cant be sure).

Up around 1k would be my guess if you shop around.

I think as previous post, get the injectors out and have them tested. Whats the mileage? Does it run ok? Could the belt have jumped a tooth on the fuel pump or been fitted wrongly?

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The car has done 190K on the clock, it does throw out a bit of soot but runs ok and still returns in the 50s MPG.

I think the next test is to look at the injectors, and plug the vag com in.

The car is actually an A4 and not a passat but you seem to get more technical help on the Vdub forums, we want to fix it not chrome it! grin.gif

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I'm sure you have quoted correctly but some of the 'facts don't seem to add up!

43 times over the emissions limit yet doing in the 50's mpg. Can this be possible? Honest John in the Telegraph has stated on several occasions that the injectors in the 110 TDi wear so that the spray pattern alters causind a jet to one side that washes off the lubricant on that side of the cylinder causing bore wear to that side, (ovality).

This is supposed to happen from 90k onwards so his advice is to replace all injectors at this mileage. None of the dealers I have asked knows anything about this and one parts guy I asked had never sold a set of injectors for this engine!

Would it be possible for just one injector to show the symptoms of this wear, causing this emission reading but not significantly affecting mpg?

Someone out there must have an answer, probably Mulkbear, Rustynuts ......etc!

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I had a 1Z engine with original injectors and 250k on the clock. It always returned towards 50mpg and flew through every MOT.

If the cars not getting driven hard enough to clear the exhaust it can fail the emissions. I had an Astra (sadly! smile.gif ), it failed the MOT on emissions. It was the highest reading he'd seen. He blamed my driving and told me to "drive it like i stole it for 2 days" and take it back.

2 days and 400 hard driven miles and it went straight through the emissions well below the maximum levels.

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Doesn't sound good about getting bore wear.

He has only had the car for a couple of months and has already had to replace a quite few bits on it.

I can't understand what is going on with it, the car has a good thrash from sussex to southampton twice a week (slow is not an option for my mate!) and when I have driven behind him, it does smoke, but I have seen worse.

Is there a sensor on the No3 cylinder?

Could the sensor (if there is one) be suspect?

He says he has had a quote for the 1,2 and 4 injectors at £84ea but No3 injector is £340.

Thank you for all your answers, it's a pity the car isn't southampton end so he could take it to our loacal VW Audi specialist who are very good.

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Try this.

Get a bottle of diesel injector cleaner and run that through the pump. Best way to do this is not "bung it in the tank, mate" as it just gets too diluted. Disconnect the hoses going to and from the diesel pump or filter, and pop them in a jar with the cleaner in it. Then fire her up and run it like that. Burns the stuff neatly into the pump and injectors and should help. Clamp the flexible fuel lines from the tank to stop diesel draining back down and needing to re-prime the system.

Then reconnect everything, dose the tank with a plenty good measure of Millers diesel plus, and then try the smoke test again.

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Hi all! Quick thanks to my ol' mate 20valver for starting this for me!

The noticeable smoking is at around 2000/2200 rpm - as the turbo is about to kik in/and just after it kiks in. If you go through this band quickly, there is no smoke noticeable (well, almost). Economy, as 20valver said, is pretty good (no less than 46 mpg tank avarage logged, 600 miles to the tank), even though it is being run heavily loaded and driven fast. Which certainly does not add up with emissions reading.

I have seen a post on Tdi club forums mentioning the use of non-OEM injector sealing rings, which appear to be thicker and hence the injector showing a lot less into the chamber and delivering the spray into the side of the piston crown, rather than into its' combustion chamber. No big mechanical probs reported, but almost certainly increase in smoke levels has. Solution is to replace the seals with the OEM one. And inspect the injectors whilst at it.

I have run a general scan with VAG Com and there were no reported faults. Will go through all the sensor block readings and check that temperature readings, etc are sensible; pump timing not been upset on cambelt change (before I had it), etc, as in link below Will let you know how that goes.

Useful link for all with VW diesels and VAG Com: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=26762

Are there any known problems with the turbo side of things? Especially on the mechanical side? I've already had to clean the connector on N75 valve (turbo enable) and free up the actuating rod on the turbo unit.

I shall push on with it and let you all know how it all goes! Keep the ideas coming - thanks!

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The injector washers will only be an issue if someone's changed the injectors or had them out at some point and replaced the washers with aftermarket ones. VW parts are hard to come by Stateside, so they tend to make do with what they can get hold of over there and Greg (I think it was) didn't realise his washers were wrong. It'll not be an issue in this country.

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Not sure if anyone did take injectors out at any point as the so-called 'Audi FSH' did not exactly show from a good side on the overall condition of the car. The book is corectly stamped though! NOWT actually appears to have been done during these services. So guess no-one wouild have bothered with taking injectors out. Glad it is not likely for the wrong washers to be fitted though!:)

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Ahhh! Remembered another minor strange symptom that started happening with the arrival of warmer weather.

Occasionally, on hot engine, especially after a hard motorway run, stopping at the lights, a strainge vibration appears throughout the car body. As if the engine revs dropped low - but according to rev counter they're OK. It is not as 'hammering' as engine stalling, more like an uncomfortable, steady buzz. Once accelerator is blipped, it goes. This does not happen every time, but I noticed it happening more and more recently, just before the MOT failure. Coolant/oil temperatures are at NORM and unchanged, no radiator fan running. Could this be anything to do with EGR valve by any chance? It not closing at idle?

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Had a look at a few things as per http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=26762, and cross referencing this with Audi factory manual. The following was discovered;

1. All static sensor check values (air temp, etc) are OK

2. All runnning checks and timing appear to be within tolerances

3. Group 003 got interesting. Air mass drawn was between 385-440 and EGR duty cycle at 84-98%. WAY out by either Audi manual or the above link.

Refereing to factory manual and the advice was to test EGR valve (that was OK, seen moving), solenoid (OK, seen working, actuating the valve).

The next thing was to check turbo boost and N75 valve (turbo enable) in conjunction with it.

N75 valve coil within tolerance (just) at 20 Ohm, 12V present on its' plug pin 1 with ignition ON. One thing it does not do is switch on audibly as Audi manual states (when? as turbo kicks in? as engine starts?)

Next check was the control rod in the turbo. Not easy to get at, but clould not move it very easily with fingers under vacuum diaphragm housing. How much movement am I expecting?

Whist stuck under the nice and warm turbo unit, I suddnely thought - I used to hear turbo 'whistle' as soon as you blip the gas. Not on a single occasion today though......

Checked turbo pressures on VAG COM and they are really feeble. In fact, manifold pressure is LOWER than the atmosferic when the engine is revved!

Sure got to be pointing at the turbo now.

Any ideas? Please feel free to share - they are always welcome!

Next step, I guess, will be to attemprt and free the turbo actuator rod.... any hints as to how the bracket is attached to turbo body? Just trying avoid removing the complete turbo unit, if i can smile.gif

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Yep I did. And they exercised it with fingers (as this is all you can get in there). Just been for a run out to clear it out and it goes a lot better (I guess turbo is working correctly now). Popped into the garage that failed it and they re-measured it. Good news - tonnes better and only .3 out off the MOT emissions. Advice was to change the fuel filter and fill it with cleaner. Will get on and do that - seems that the filter never been off, despite the 'Replaced' ticked on Audi Servce sheet! It is soooo tight!

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Got it off! so brand new filter on there too. Only forgot to pre-fill it with clean fuel - so it does not want to start.

Been advised to get an injector cleaner fluid that is meant to go into the fuel system directly, i.e into the filter or pump feed neat. Asked a few autospares places - no one seems sure on that. Any ideas? Or will a normal diesel flush do for this purpose? will the engine start on it? or fuel first and then feed the cleaner in as the engine starts?

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Any diesel injector cleaner will burn just like diesel, and Halfords had a few on the shelf when I wanted some last year.

Now see, I bet you just went barging in and disconnected the fuel filter and replaced it with the new one, and didn't clamp the lines going to and from the filter to the tank did you? Now those will be empty, and you've got to re prime them before you can get the thing to run properly again. So, disconnect the filter again and fill it with either clean diesel or your flavour of injector cleaner. Then have a means of clamping the lines ready, like a brake pipe clamp, and very carefully suck on the feed pipe from the tank. How far you go with this before you get a mouthful of diesel will govern how much you need to crank the engine before it'll start but diesel tastes pants and probably isn't good for you. Anyway, when you get diesel as close to your mouth as you dare, clamp that feckin line to stop it draining away again and then reconnect everything before you unclamp it. If you can lay your hands on a hand operated vacuum pump, this'll stop you getting a mouthfull of diesel.

Did I tell you this in my previous post, about clamping the fuel lines? I think I did.

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Done it! Without drinking any too! All flushed through with neat cleaner. Managed to crank engine with injector pipes undone till it ran. The only hinderance was that one of the plastic fuel pipes in the engine bay had a pin hole - so sucked air in and prevented me from starting the engine for hours! As far as clamping pipes - almost impossible as the only soft bits are joining pieces between the rigid lines. The only good place I found was next to the fuel tank, under the car.

For reference: the FEED pipe is the thicker one, RETURN is the thinner one. This is consistent from the fuel filter all the way back to the tank.

Not had a chance to take it for the emissions test yet.

Noticed a few interesting readings on VAG Com:

1. Cold start system indicated as ON (coolant temp +80C)

2. EGR ratio 88-94% with EGR active (advised 40% or so)

EGR valve does appear to work - it moves for EGR on/off, so assume its' solenoid is OK too. Unless it is wacked either wide open or shut with no regulation?

Could this be an ECU problem?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Cleaned intake manifold out last weekend - could not believe the state of it. Full of soot and oily gunge! EGR seems to be working OK now. Is this showing a problem with the crankcase/rocker cover breather - too much oil being chucked out?

A bit worried that there is no mg/R shown at all for cylinder 4!? Others are wildely out with each other. According to Audi workshop manual, it may be either worn injectors or constant pressure valves on fuel pump outputs.... Any ideas which to try first? Anyone seen these go in that fasion?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry been away for a bit. A4 allowed back on the road - after cleaning the injectors by neat cleaner. Also, took MOt at a different station - and it now passed with opacity of 0.75 (spec upto 1.25 on new motor). Also noticed that the test was carried out slightly differently..... I wonder if that had anything to do with it too!

Huge thanks to all for all the help!

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