Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 They must be doing something right....... linky. Love 'em or hate 'em, and I love 'em more each day, they seem to know their business. Headline figures: <ul type="square"> [*]Second quarter of 2006, sales of its BMW, Mini and Rolls-Royce vehicles rose 3.2% from a year earlier to 365,547 units [*]BMW's pre-tax profits rose 33% to 1.2bn euros, beating market expectations. [*]BMW reaffirmed that it expected to make 4bn euros in pre-tax profit across 2006 as a whole. Quite impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 It shows you don't have to be one of the big four if you get your product and sums right. I wonder how much they have the burgeoning UK market to thank for that? Particularly the 3 series - selling more units than the Mondeo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_d Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Audi did better, first half net profit up 36% 'he Ingolstadt-based company, part of Volkswagen AG, said it earned 407 million euros ($519.6 million) in the January-June period, up 36 percent from the 300 million euros it posted a year earlier. Revenue was up 17 percent to 15.4 billion euros ($19.6 billion) from 13.2 billion euros last year. Audi did not release second-quarter figures. Worldwide, sales were up 9.8 percent with 463,494 cars sold in the first six months of the year, compared with 421,965 in the same period last year. Rupert Stadler, an Audi board member who oversees finance, pointed to consumers' willingness to spend more money on higher-priced vehicles. "The substantial growth in earnings is due to the fact that we are selling significantly more vehicles with more exclusive specifications in vehicle segments higher up the range," he said. Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn said the company had made "good progress along our course of profitable growth." "Our aim is to sell 50,000 vehicles more in 2006 than we did in the previous year," he said.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Both Audi and BMW raised prices in the US by between 3 & 4% last year and again this year for 'foreign exchange reasons'. The the rate moved in their favour. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Good but not Toyota levels of profit. They take in about £4.4bn profit and was up by 34 ish percent for 2006. They will overtake GM and move well ahead of them all this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 ...but Porsche are still the most profitable car manufacturer by a very long way. They have a retained profit per unit (the measure for the car business) in the very high teens percentage (17.4% when I last looked). The next best (BMW - 11.2% - followed by Toyota - 10.3% -) are only just into double digit percentile unit profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Comapring Audi and BMW is not comparing like for like really as Audi is part of VAG. I don't know what the figures would be if you stripped just the BMW brand out of those results (i.e. removed RR and Mini). The Audi brand may well be a growth part of the VAG Group but as a whole, aren't VAG struggling? Impressive results by Porsche though; mind you they are positioned in a different market to Audi and BMW on the whole I wonder what Toyota's secret is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I would have thought that someone like Morgan would have the highest margin. Porsche spend a fair amount on R&D. I can't imagine that Morgan spend too much. Likewise Bentley can't be too bad. Anyone who can get away with charging £250k+ for an Arnage based on a platform countless years old must be making a quid or two somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I wonder what Toyota's secret is? Sales in the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 But simply racking up sales isn't enough. Don't Ford and General Motors also sell a lot in the US? I don't have any figures on units sold but I can't imagine Toyota being that far ahead of them, assuming they are ahead. If your cost base is expensive, you're not efficient and you're losing money on every car sold then any number of sales isn't going to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Compared with the Detroit dinosaurs, Toyota's approach to design, manufacture, working practices etc etc is decades ahead. Up front investment in techology that hugely diminishes unit costs. It also helps that their cars are reliable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTI_Boi Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 VAG reported sales up 12% for the 1st half of the year, profits of €1.3bn for the 2nd quarter - up 49% Struggling????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson_R32 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 BMW make approximately double what Audi make in a year. Which isn't suprising when you see the prices BMW charge for their cars/options/Accessories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy_uk Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I agree with Gareth's measure for Porsche - most profitable per unit sold and they do this while manging the supply line to hopefully protect residual values. Although BMW and Audi make some big numbers today in terms of total € revenue and profit rather than % margin per vehicle, they have mainly achieved this through volume. Sounds like they are setting up some residual value problems for the furure to keep today's shareholders happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] VAG reported sales up 12% for the 1st half of the year, profits of €1.3bn for the 2nd quarter - up 49% Struggling????? [/ QUOTE ] They most certainly were. 1st quarter results were disappointing, the share price fell sharply and they announced a 3 year cost cutting plan which included cutting 20,000 jobs. The figures you quote were before exceptional items i.e. those which include the cost of the cost cutting which actually cost them €906 million of the €1.3bn profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] a 3 year cost cutting plan which included cutting 20,000 jobs. [/ QUOTE ] I wonder how many of those were the company directors caught with the cocaine and hookers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Compared with the Detroit dinosaurs, Toyota's approach to design, manufacture, working practices etc etc is decades ahead. Up front investment in techology that hugely diminishes unit costs. It also helps that their cars are reliable... [/ QUOTE ] Plus it also helps that they don't have the pensions/healthcare labour costs that a lot of others have, along with massive economies of scale on materials, R&D etc Oh and when your competitors in the world's biggest market (Honda/Nissan apart - ignoring German stuff) produce such unmitigated rubbish as the Pontiac Aztec then that's also quite handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] But simply racking up sales isn't enough. Don't Ford and General Motors also sell a lot in the US? I don't have any figures on units sold but I can't imagine Toyota being that far ahead of them, assuming they are ahead. If your cost base is expensive, you're not efficient and you're losing money on every car sold then any number of sales isn't going to help. [/ QUOTE ] From the begining of July nearly every 2006 Ford model in The US & Canada is now being sold at dealer cost and they are shifting loads but as Milo say's if your not efficient then you arn't going to make any money regardless of sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] BMW make approximately double what Audi make in a year. Which isn't suprising when you see the prices BMW charge for their cars/options/Accessories [/ QUOTE ] You are kidding right? Audi charge you for everything you need in their cars until they have been out for ages and they need to start shifting some. Armrest, rear dipping mirror etc. In fact do you still have to pay for electric rear windows or have they started including them now? VW/Audi group have sold the most cars out of all the manufacturers in europe over the last 12 months and by quite a long margin, the figures are in this weeks autobild.de, BMW is way down the list from memory, even Merc sell more. VW/Audi are doing very well at the moment in terms of getting the models out there and really building the brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Regards volumes of BMWs and Audis, I think Richy_uk made a very good point: [ QUOTE ] Although BMW and Audi make some big numbers today in terms of total € revenue and profit rather than % margin per vehicle, they have mainly achieved this through volume. Sounds like they are setting up some residual value problems for the furure to keep today's shareholders happy. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 They are not volume manufaturers at all, from January through to June the top 15 reads as follows for Europe... 1. VW 2. Renault 3. Vauxhall 4. Ford 5. Peugeot 6. Citroen 7. Toyota 8. Mercedes 10. BMW 11. Audi 12. Seat 13. Nissan 14. Skoda 15. Hyundai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilB Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 The problem with residuals will probabaly only hit the A4/3-Series sector, as the market is becoming more and more flodded with them been used as rep's cars. Along with basement cars for the sheep who want one over them next door and to hell for the VFM factor. However, driving a BMW or an Audi doesn't really feel an acheivement these days though does it (Ignoring models like the 6 series, A8 etc...) 10 years ago if you drove one of those cars you knew you had worked hard to get one, these days you can get one out of a xmas cracker if you're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] They are not volume manufaturers at all, from January through to June the top 15 reads as follows for Europe... 1. VW 2. Renault 3. Vauxhall 4. Ford 5. Peugeot 6. Citroen 7. Toyota 8. Mercedes 10. BMW 11. Audi 12. Seat 13. Nissan 14. Skoda 15. Hyundai [/ QUOTE ] But that to me says volume for BMW and Audi which were the examples used The point was Porsche supply props up the Porsche marque on the used car market. Where are they on the top 30 list? Audis and BMWs are a lot more affordable in today's society hence there are more of them about. Both brands have done everything to encourage sales in a competitve market rather than preserve and grow market share in a niche market. When was the last time you walked into a Porsche dealership and demanded a miniumum of 10% discount? You don't do it yet it is now commonplace in Audi/BMW dealerships. I buy new cars yet I would never consider an Audi or BMW with less than 10%-12% off the sticker price. Porsche would escort me off the premises. Hence Audi and BMW and pushing for unit sales NOW but in doing so may flood the used car market (in comparison to years gone by) in 3-5 years time which will only serve to undermine residuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 You're right, anyone can really afford a BMW or Audi these days, only today I got a fax through for either a BMW 2.0iES or a 2.0SE Audi saloon for £189 a month on lease. When you think what you spend the rest of the month on food, mortgage, holidays, travel etc. etc. it does make this seem very cheap. Residuals are already takinhg a big hit, things have really changed over the last 5 years. I can remember looking for a 1.9tdi a4 back in 98, and a 95 N plate one with 60k miles on it was £14-15k still, the car was only £18k new. If you took a 3 year old 1.9tdi now with 60k miles and no spec you could get one for around £8-9k I bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] You're right, anyone can really afford a BMW or Audi these days, only today I got a fax through for either a BMW 2.0iES or a 2.0SE Audi saloon for £189 a month on lease. When you think what you spend the rest of the month on food, mortgage, holidays, travel etc. etc. it does make this seem very cheap. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly A car is much more affordable now then ever before. In 1989 I paid over £11k for a new Ford Orion 1.6i Ghia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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