ESP question

[DHA]

Does it kill understeer as well? Or at least try to.

I went into a bend today that has room to run wide and the yellow light was flashing away like a good-un. Didn't seem to kill too much power like systems in other cars I have owned but was slightly disconcerting that it triggered.

[RedRobin]

ESP will do all it can in as many circumstances as possible to keep your car stable. The ESP on the Mk5 GTI is excellent in that it doesn't kill too much power - IMO.

If you want to explore the fullest limits of your own car, then I strongly recommend a day one-to-one with Andy Walsh of Car Limits on North Weald airfield. 4 of us GTI 'boys' did a day together. There's a thread way back in this forum.

[DHA]

Yeah I intend doing a driving course of some description early next year.

Only asked really as I felt the car was fairly stable and it wasnt a particularly lairy maneuver I was doing at the time.

[jhibbin]

Agree the ESP is very good on the GTI, best system I have seen, nice mild reduction in power just enough to stop you sliding off the road but not so much that it kills power on a fast start.

Would never switch it off in road use unlike some other systems.

Interestingly I'm not so happy with the ABS ... how does the AP brake upgrade work with ABS ..have you had the opportunity to test?

Round here all roads are layered with wet leaves, if you have to hit the brakes it seems slow to kick in then just seems to remove all feel from pedal and takes over very disconcerting compaired with other VAG systems I have had.

[RedRobin]

[ QUOTE ]

Interestingly I'm not so happy with the ABS ... how does the AP brake upgrade work with ABS ..have you had the opportunity to test?

Round here all roads are layered with wet leaves, if you have to hit the brakes it seems slow to kick in then just seems to remove all feel from pedal and takes over very disconcerting compaired with other VAG systems I have had.

[/ QUOTE ]

....Firstly, I wouldn't switch off the ESP for public road use either - It has saved my bacon too many times!

AP - I've now covered 3,000 miles on them and tested them in all sorts of conditions. From hard use in very tight twisties, fast approaches to roundabouts, and on the unrestricted German Autobahns () at high speed. Obviously every condition is different every day but although I have never been conscious of what the ABS is actually doing I can say that the brake pedal response is instant but with absolutely no snatching. The OEM feels as if the initial braking is delayed although it doesn't feel as if the pedal has travel before functioning. The OEM braking feels spongy (hard spongy, not soft spongy) by comparison - Though they are still very effective brakes.

But the main thing is simply substantially better braking power. At 130 mph in Germany I shaved my speed down to 90 quicker than you can say "ten elephants"!

The OEM are exactly as you describe imo - Slow to action and no pedal feel and hence very poor feedback.

Even if you have to suddenly stamp hard, the APs are instant but not unsettling. However, bear in mind that my suspension comes more into play in harder conditions.

I've researched all my mods, helped by fellow Tyresmokers, very carefully and taken my time - If I sometimes seem over enthusiastic about them it's only because I ain't at all disappointed!

AP Racing BB on the Mk5 GTI ?? -

Simply put:- The APs are confidence inspiring and you feel safer. Knowing they won't fade is a good feeling too!

[jhibbin]

Its getting harder and harder to not want to spend the money on this upgrade. I had a small moment on a recent journey where braking reasonably hard into a 2nd gear corner from 50 ish down to 20 ish and found some wet leaves.

It was really wierd how the OEM brakes seemed to go into ABS to control the slide on one wheel but at the same time totally disengage all driver feedback. The brake feedback using OEM is poor at best of times but I found when ABS kicked in it just dissapeared.

The system worked and we made it round the corner fine but I would like to avoid that again, that shouldn't happen. ABS used to flick in occasionaly on my VRS but it was always telling you exactly what was going on, you instantly knew which wheel it was and how much more braking power you had left, made you feel very safe I want that feeling back when I hit the brakes and it sounds like this is the way to get it.

[RedRobin]

Hibbsy > as I'm sure you know already - Your brakes can only be as good as your tyres in that grip while braking is fundamental. Obviously road surface plays a part too and so, wet leaves and ice etc will potentially render any brakes far less effective no matter how good they are.

I'm not able to tell so specifically which wheel and how much braking power is left - All I can tell is that I'm stopping smoothly and safely and that the car is remaining stable. I've experienced the very slightest of what I might call "nose snaking" under extremely hard braking on a rough B-road surface and I guess that's the ABS compensating. This was the other evening and I remember feeling as if those big discs were huge and bullet proof.

I'm conscious that what satisfies me may not satisfy you, but even if you have experienced better brakes than the APs in other cars, they very seriously improve the GTI. SiBurt will, I'm sure, agree with me but possibly from a different perspective, especially as he has track experience. He has similar modded suspension too and I'm sure it contributes.

I hope someone will correct me if they think I'm wrong about brakes and suspension adding up to being more than just the sum of the parts (1+1=3).

AP Racing are part of Brembo and have a very major reputation. Having spent time with them I have seen the detail that goes into their design and development and I know how committed and enthusiastic some of their engineers are.

AP Racing BB Kit thread