jhibbin Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 OK so I have had the car back for 3 months now and feel like I'm finally getting to know this car a bit better. I'm amazed at how long it seems to take to relearn to drive with DSG. Of course any fool can floor it on a straight dry road and plip through the gears (wonderfull as this is ) but getting used to it in a variety of situations so that its just second nature like a manual is really hard work I find. I have decided recently to dump it in manual all the time, no D mode or S mode at all to try and get used to driving it as a manual and see if it just became second nature. If you are really pushing on a twisty b road then its a great tool but in other circumstances I still find it does dumb things. Occasional downshifts into first, I never ever down shifted into first in a manual unless stationary ...but then you can't ride the clutch at all. I still catch it out by downshifting from 3rd into 2nd when it has 4th pre-engaged because I'm not braking at the time. You have to adjust your driving style to cure this and even then its not always possible to give the computer advanced warning of your next gear direction. It can be bad if you get one of these moments when you want to grab an overtake ... you need to feel the power before pulling out IMO I can now drive fast or I can drive smooth but doing both is still evading me. The end result of all this is that I either finish a journey loving or hating the DSG. Even got to a point a few days back where I thought about a manual ... then had a great drive on a b-road and realised I could never go back. So right now I'm reading evo trying to decide if I should be planning for a remap and brake upgrade (£2K ish) or looking to get rid in 6-12 months and get something a bit more focused (Elise S, Audi TT maybe) ... you see the GTi is the best hot hatch I've owned but oddly it has made me want more. Kinda strange that, how a car like this can be so good but not ultimately as satisfying as some other cars I've had, I love it but do I love it enough .... back to evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkins Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I have a manual car but agonised for ages over DSG, still do now and often think about changing. It's that last little bit of control you loose against the manual (your example of dropping into first around a slow corner is a great example) and only having two not very good (meaning short) test drives that ultimatly put me off. This was a very expensive car for me and I didn't want to take the risk of not liking it. What I find particularly interesting is your point about it leaving you wanting more as I feel the same. It's almost too good in some ways. I think it's a relativly quick car but sometimes it just doesn't feel like it, perhaps because it's so refined and quiet (must be worse in a DSG with the smooth changes). I came from a Cooper S works and that felt so much quicker, even though on paper I don't think there's much in it. I've thought about going back to a Mini or perhaps an early E46 M3 as they've dropped in price a fair bit lately, but then I feel I'd end up regreting it. You have to take in to account how confortable the GTI is, how much room there is for passengers, boot space, etc etc. And I still really love the styling (although I only seem to appreciate it fully when I see someone elses, anyone else have this phenomenon?) Anyway I've decided to go for the Revo treatment (hopefully tomorrow) in the hope that the extra power will put my doubts to bed for good. Would like a Miltek too to add a bit more character to the car but on a budget and the remap is def the best bang for buck you can get. Possibly just the free trial but they've said I can have the full job done and have a refund after 30 days if I don't like it, save me going back. Hibbsy why don't you try the free trial, might help you make your mind up free of charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 You've hit the nail on the head imo. If you restrict yourself to only driving DSG in its 'manual' mode you can expose its weaknesses (as you describe). However, the beauty of DSG is that you can override any selection in order to better suit what you want. For example, slip her into S-mode if you suddenly and quickly want power in the optimum gear before a fast overtake. It's all the various combinations of options which make it take quite long to become fluidly familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 [ QUOTE ] What I find particularly interesting is your point about it leaving you wanting more as I feel the same. It's almost too good in some ways. I think it's a relativly quick car but sometimes it just doesn't feel like it, perhaps because it's so refined and quiet (must be worse in a DSG with the smooth changes). [/ QUOTE ] ....Look what happened to me! The slippery slope of Exhaust+CAI+Suspension+Brakes. But it transforms what is a great car into one that's even better. It's what a fast road GTI should be but not what is so commercially viable for VW to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkins Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 True - I too often compare it to the Mini which is perhaps a little unfair, as that's a fairly unique car in terms of it's size and feeling close to the ground etc (the supercharger sound is to die for though). Done a few fairly long trips recently (not pan european ones granted ) and I must say the GTI is a wonderful companion. I particularly will never tire of the wonderful blue light scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 The longest drive in one day which I've done is 742 miles. I've done plenty of 200-400 milers and in every single case I've not felt bored or tired on arrival. People say things like "Poor you, having driven so far" and I want to say "Bollox!! I loved every mile!" Enjoy, nutkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fresco1 Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Know what you mean - stuffed the car with wife, kids, suitcases, car seats, prams and belted off to DUblin in summer - not mad speeds, but a steady 80 - 85 for hours. Felt totally refershed at the other end! Very few cars about that you can toss around on the roads, chase some more exotic motors - and do it all with a flat-pack wardrobe in the boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 ....Hence proving that Jeremy Clarkson was telling the truth when he said on Top Gear that the Mk5 GTI was great for gently taking the kids to school then driving it like a rally car home, plus you could easily carry a 12-draw cabinet in the back. I just had to arrange a test drive after seeing that prog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxyboy Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 is a tt more focused than a gti......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 [ QUOTE ] is a tt more focused than a gti......? [/ QUOTE ] ....Exactly what I was wondering. And I'm not convinced it is, but it depends how you define "focussed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_is_Back Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 [ QUOTE ] ....Hence proving that Jeremy Clarkson was telling the truth... [/ QUOTE ] First and only time he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] And I still really love the styling (although I only seem to appreciate it fully when I see someone elses, anyone else have this phenomenon?) [/ QUOTE ] All the time, i see other GTI's and instantly think, sh!t that looks cool, that's what i drive!! If your in M mode, give it welly and then drop down, the changes will then be instant as the DSG ECU senses that a lot more power is needed! The only thing that really plagues me with the GTI is the traction... that drives me up the wall TBH. When i test drove that 120d M the other day, it felt so good being able to plant it off the line, having the front rise up, and then wooshing off down the road. But that said, it is still a great car nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The only thing that really plagues me with the GTI is the traction... that drives me up the wall TBH. When i test drove that 120d M the other day, it felt so good being able to plant it off the line, having the front rise up, and then wooshing off down the road. But that said, it is still a great car nonetheless. [/ QUOTE ] ....Limited Slip Diff by Quaiffe? - If too much of a slippery slope, then a pair of (Piloti) driving shoes for Christmas, or just a more gentle and progressive use of right foot. Btw, check out the DSG paddle extensions thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Everything Hibbsy has said i too have felt over time. Traction and 1 series pmsl the 130 i drove reminded me of the old E21 323 we had at one point with its handling and tail antics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGK512 Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I've not driven a front driver with a LSD but I imagine it would be a big handfull. Had the Quaife LSD fitted to my Westfiled some time ago and it totally changed the way you needed to drive the car quickly imo Would go off the line like a scalded cat .... which was good .... but when you got to bends as you turned you had to remember the rear would start to lock up as the inside tyre went light. Which meant in slow corners go in slow and boot it out gently sliding the rear round as opposed to the full "tank-slapper" in quicker corners just squeeze on more power to quell the push the on nose understeer. NOw if you put one of these in a front driver again in a straight line great but cornering ...... understeer could be worse and it might even tramp a bit although the Quaife is a torque baising so it never 'goes solid' Be inteested if someone does go for it Hibbsy - have the same thoughts as you especally the dropping to fisrt thing round a slow corner .... the torque of the V6 can be a bit of a surpise in 1st went you thought it was 2nd ! Which they could set it so it only drops to 1st when actually stationery. Still everyone knows the GTi is the fastest thing this side of the starship enterprise so not quite sure if an LSD is needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I have driven a couple of FWD cars with LSDs one a SEAT ibiza with i think it was around 300bhp and it was fine, the Second the mk3 Ford RS turbo that can be very tricky if you manage to get the inner wheel of the corner on the loose mind that car was around 190bhp. Last but not least a mates Focus RS and that can also be fun on bumpy roads but not as bad as the press makes out, i think its all in the overall setup myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGK512 Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Yeah thinking about it I suppose regardless of steering angle the 'locked' front wheels are just going to pull you in the direction they are pointing at the time. Bet they can bet entertaing though on a bumpy road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR250 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Do like DSG but not sure if I would go for it again. Evan in tiptronic the car has to much say in whats going on. May just be me but would like a rev limiter when using the paddles rather than it just selecting the next gaer for me at red line. Got new tyers now and can put the full 250 BHP down with out loss of grip. Traction off the line in wet is still a challenge but alot better. Had a week end of driving cross country with out the girl friend telling me to slow down. Crist I had forgoten how fast and capable my car is with the morego 250/power grip and AP's. My friend I meet up with is mad about subarus and has a PPP'd wrx. He had to admit my car was faster even around the twisty stuff. Deff go for the remapp. Forget a TT had a test drive in a new 3.2 DSG. Focused is not the word there dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC950 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 In my opinion, unless you drive it in 'Manual' i.e., with the paddles, its just an auto, despite the marketing hype. Dropping into S to get a lower gear is, I think, a crude and slow way to find more power, with the paddles its just blip-blip, your down two cogs and away you go. I just don't understand who would want to ordinarily drive it around in D. Its a gti, remember. I have no problem driving it manually, quickly and aggressively or quickly and smoothly. My only complaint remains that sometimes I cannot see the damn gear I am in on the display, which can be a nuisance. Sometimes the paddles seem to not to get all the downshifts 'registered' so I'm starting to use the stick to downshift, I feel more confident that I'm in the gear I should be in, that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 I wish that when you were in manual mode, the whole Multifunction display showed up the gear in the middle as 'big' numbers!!!, it can be quite annoying trying to see what gear you are in when driving down some 'twistys' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR250 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Or evan better a head up display! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 [ QUOTE ] In my opinion, unless you drive it in 'Manual' i.e., with the paddles, its just an auto, despite the marketing hype. Dropping into S to get a lower gear is, I think, a crude and slow way to find more power, with the paddles its just blip-blip, your down two cogs and away you go. I just don't understand who would want to ordinarily drive it around in D. Its a gti, remember. [/ QUOTE ] too true mate, mine is pretty much glued in M mode. The wife likes D though, and i do when i'm stuck in traffic etc. For me DSG does things either amazingly well or shockingly bad. You know what they say... the Jack of all trades, master of none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Must say i spent 45 mins in traffic yesterday due to an accident driving a DSG GTI made it easier i just wish the take off was not quite so abrupt. I can see a DSG car been a real handfull up here high up in the north in the winter when we get snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 I have this problem with Auto gearboxes mated to 4 pots, it just doesn't work for me, even DSG. As much as i love the DSG in my GTI, i think it would work better in an R as you have the torque to ride on when DSG is being lazy etc. It's just challenging with DSG delays especially when turbo lag is thrown into the equation, it can make for some slow pullaways and 'hesitation' moments where the car can't seem to make up it's mind. When it works though, it feckin works, and crushes any doubts that might have accumalated- blippin' through the paddles on a quiet twisty doesn't get much better. I find DSG makes progress rapid and once off, acceleration is awesome. BTW I drove DSG TDI the other day and it was feckin awfull, it felt like such a bad ass combo. IMO the two did not work at all well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 [ QUOTE ] As much as i love the DSG in my GTI, i think it would work better in an R as you have the torque to ride on when DSG is being lazy etc. [/ QUOTE ] ....A remapped GTI will have greatly improved torque (so I'm told ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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