Limiting motorway speeds to 50

[Milo]

Does limiting motorway and dual carriageway speeds to 50 mph actually help the flow of traffic? I know the thinking behind it but it seems like a load of crap to me.

I'm asking as for a few months now, a large stretch of the A1 from the Angel of the North to the Tyne has been permanently reduced to 50 (as well as a dual carriageway that feeds onto the A1 which is never busy). This stretch of the A1 is the most congested stretch of dual carriageway/motorway in the country or so I'm led to believe, it is certainly a nightmare every day especially if there's a bump as it's dual carriageway with no hard shoulder. But when it's busy, it slows because of sheer volume of traffic as it's the only major route to commute on. You would be lucky to average 2 mph.

But outside the normal commute times, doing 70 (or beyond if you're so inclined) is safely acheivable. I avoid it all costs before 09:30 and 15:00 onwards so usually can tootle along at 70 with no problem. But now it's like the fecking Stepford Wives with folk doing 40 in lane 1, being overtaken by folk doing 44 in lane 2; I've seen more near misses in the last 2 weeks than I can remember.

I was flashed and given a clenched fist today by some octogenerian who I closed in at 70 while he deliberately did 40 in the fast lane with nothing around him, presumably to teach me a lesson. So I undertook him, much to his anger.

At the moment, there is no camera enforcement but I can see it happening. I would be fine with variable limits (as noone gets above 5mph during rush hour anyway) but I guess they would only work with cameras to police it which I'm definitely against.

Currently I still do 70 if possible (I'm talking quiet, straight dual carriageway) but it's only time before I get pulled. Ranting at the police isn't going to help when it happens.

So as things stand, it's still fecking mental durring rush hour but they've managed to slow everyone else down during the day, making it more congested than ever.

Does this work anywhere else?

[Cuprabob]

i have an 8 mile stetch of dual carriageway near me (A77) which has been reduced to 50mph (specs enforced) as there were a large number of fatalities due to bad design of junctions and rather than fix them they done this. it's a nightmare as everybody is unched up with inside lane doing 50mph and outside lane doing 51mph. IMO it actully makes the junctions more damgerous as there are no braks in the traffic to allow cars to cross and or join.

[CarMad]

Does limiting motorway and dual carriageway speeds to 50 mph actually help the flow of traffic? I know the thinking behind it but it seems like a load of crap to me.

I think the name you need is unstable traffic flow. The reason places like the M42 and M25 work is because they have lots of cameras to keep peoples speed constant on the whole. The issue is when traffic speeds up quickly and then someone suddenly brakes hard or cuts some up etc., the person behind brakes a bit harder then the person behind them comes to a complete stop etc. etc. It creates for dangerous and in the end a slow flow of traffic.

By helping the traffic to keep a constant speed the above is prevented and keeps traffic flowing, its not perfect but everywhere it has been deployed properly has resulted in better traffic flow at peak times.

Without the extra cameras etc. it may help but I doubt will ultimately be as effective, I'm not the expert but the person that explain it all and the reasoning was.

In the same vain when they put traffic lights on entry slip roads it helps the motorway to not get to congested and so traffic flows better and then everyone gets to their journeys end quicker, which is also why they are expanding that more as well, its very effective on the M62 from what I've experienced of it.

[Milo]

I think the name you need is unstable traffic flow. The reason places like the M42 and M25 work is because they have lots of cameras to keep peoples speed constant on the whole. The issue is when traffic speeds up quickly and then someone suddenly brakes hard or cuts some up etc., the person behind brakes a bit harder then the person behind them comes to a complete stop etc. etc. It creates for dangerous and in the end a slow flow of traffic.

By helping the traffic to keep a constant speed the above is prevented and keeps traffic flowing, its not perfect but everywhere it has been deployed properly has resulted in better traffic flow at peak times.

Without the extra cameras etc. it may help but I doubt will ultimately be as effective, I'm not the expert but the person that explain it all and the reasoning was

Like I said, I know why the idea exists.

But the problem on this stretch of road is purely volume of traffic. There's no stopping and starting, just crawling along the same 5 mile stretch, north and southbound every day, at the same times. You can judge to within a few hundred metres where it will begin and where it will end. So why impose a 50 limit all of the time?

The idea of everyone sailing along this stretch of road at 50 at half 8 in the morning because they've changed the limit, is absolutely hilarious.

Widening it to 4 or even 3 lanes would be a start but it's not logistically possible.

[RedRobin]

I think that problems of a speed restriction inappropriate to the design and immediate environment of the road is a disaster wherever it is applied. 50mph (or a slower limit) is totally appropriate where there are road works but by not allowing the traffic to spread out and forcing vehicles close together within a speed limit it is downright dangerous. There are many drivers who don't want to drive above 60 or 70 even on motorways and the rest of us are bunched up with them and they don't understand braking distances either, so it's more difficult to make progress and leave them to it. I tend to speed up just to get away from pods of vehicles and get into some open space. But if I see cars travelling faster than I am behind me I make a conscious effort to make way for them to continue (as long as they don't tailgate me, then I slow and slow gradually and then suddenly boot it - They usually then stay well back).

I hate those gantry mounted 'variable speed' sections like on the M42 - It's constantly stop-start-stop.

Did anyone see that 3 hour prog on BBC4 last night about the history of motorways? - Brought back lots of memories as I've been driving over 45 years.

[Riz]

They should reduce normal driving lane speeds to 60mph

Keep overtaking lane 1 speed to 70mph

And increase overtaking lane 2 speed to 75mph

Riz

[Bison1379134007]

They should reduce normal driving lane speeds to 60mph

Keep overtaking lane 1 speed to 70mph

And increase overtaking lane 2 speed to 75mph

Riz

Nice and easy to enforce that one! I think everyone would just sit in the outside lane at 75 nest pas, which, unless it's changed since i left, it pretty much what everyone does anyway don't they?

3 wheeled scooters - it's the only solution.

[CarMad]

They should reduce normal driving lane speeds to 60mph

Keep overtaking lane 1 speed to 70mph

And increase overtaking lane 2 speed to 75mph

Riz

That is probably the worst suggestion I've ever seen on TSN. So everyone would sit in the middle or outside lanes only effectively making a 3 lane road into 1, great work Riz.... NOT.

[Tipex]

The answer of course, is minimum speeds.

And f*ck all this lane 1,2 & 3, it's slow, medium and fast lane.

So slow lane is for lorries and pensioners, minimum speed of 60mph, medium lane minimum speed of 70, and fast lane minimum speed of 80.

If your caught under the minimum your banned from using motorways for 1 year.

[stooH]

I like that idea! I'd be well in advance of the minimum all the time, just to keep safe.

[NewNiceMrMe]

The problem with any lane speed limits is people are stupid. They don't read or listen and they certainly don't think.

Your average driver couldn't tell you the speed limit on any road, never mind in a lane on a motorway if it went that way.

I don't like these 50 mph sections on Motorways purely because I find them more dangerous than 70 mph non restricted sections. People seem to struggle to stay in their lanes at a lower speed and nobody ever seems to understand the 'stay in lane' rules that apply in some cases. I'd like to know the statistics on accidents in these sections, or immediately before/after them - because I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were higher than the 70 mph sections.

[Milo]

On that stretch of the A1, there's been a few fatalities over the years but only on the bend at the end of the Team Valley. The low sun often catches people out as they round the bend and a lot of people mis-judge how fast you can take it*. There's always a lot of lane swapping at the last moment going southbound (where most the crashes are) as people try to jump the slower traffic in the inside lane. They should have left the SPECS cameras in from 18 month ago when they did roadworks there, as it covered that stretch perfectly. Noone could have complained at the reasoning. To do the whole stretch as 50 though is plain stupid.

* I seem to recall taking it at over 100 in my old Orion 1.6i Ghia many, many years ago and only getting away with it through pure good luck. I learned a very big lesson that day.

[NewNiceMrMe]

* I seem to recall taking it at over 100 in my old Orion 1.6i Ghia many, many years ago and only getting away with it through pure good luck. I learned a very big lesson that day.

I'm saying nowt.

I can imagine it was scary in the Orion, cos it was scary enough in the car I was in (which was obviously a very very very very long time ago and in no way was it a recently owned or currently owned vehicle and nor was it even my car. I think that's enough.)