Milltek Quads (Non-resonated)...

[Celts88]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Red (or others)

Have you any idea of the price difference from the Cat-Back to Turbo-back as it’s been mentioned that it could be at least another £150. Also seen mentioned that the Turbo-back is only useful if you are going to get the vehicle remapped in the future, which I really don’t have any plans to do, as it seems OK for me (at present). Is there a reason to stick to the Cat-back if you are not having the vehicle mapped or is it worth getting the Turbo-back for the extra 10bhp it gives (over the Cat-back)???

Cheers Mate

[/ QUOTE ]

....Hi Celts

I can give you answers to most of your questions because they exactly match the questions I have already asked both myself, Milltek, tuners and others.

Firstly, the Turbo-back (or Hi-flow) component will probably cost approx £120-150 more plus any fitting costs if applicable (some suppliers fit for free) - I can't be specific on this answer.

I too first thought that the Turbo-back was pointless unless you planned to re-map. However, now I know a little more about it and have had conversations with Milltek themselves (not sales people!), I would say that the Turbo-back makes much more efficient use of the GTI's standard FSI turbocharged engine than a Cat-back is able to. I have a Cat-back on mine (as everyone here knows only too well! - Did I mention Quads?!) and the extra 10 bhp is subtley noticeable and so is the throttle response.

The Turbo-back gives 215-220 bhp, subtley increases throttle response, but importantly gives more torque and this also translates into the DSG system. If I had known more about the Turbo-back at the time of my buying the Cat-back, I would have bought the Turbo-back instead. This does not mean I am in the slightest disappointed in my Cat-back system - Far from it!! It's just that it's a more efficient and beneficial exploitation of the standard GTI power plant.

Your question obliges me to say something I was planning to keep secret until after it was done: I am changing my Cat-back for a Turbo-back but only the 'front end' so I'll keep my Non-Resonated and Quad components and only swap Non-Res to Res if I consider it too loud but think this unlikely based on Milltek's latest dB tests they have shared with me. It would be pointless to re-map without modding the exhaust system but not vica-versa as you ask.

Having asked others here I am confident that an increase in bhp which remains below 230ish does not put undue and longterm strain on the GTI's other standard components. Also tuning is not just about achieving the highest bhp number. It's about tailoring the car to best suit your needs and my needs are safety, durability and driveability on the road and not the track. I defo favour the tuners who tailor their work to the individual car and the owner's requirements on a rolling-road etc rather than albeit conveniently and cheaply turning up at your home with a laptop and a generic solution.

West Tuning at Thruxton have been recommended to me, amongst others, by Milltek and I am visiting there next week just to discuss and learn more about tuning. It's a good excuse for a nice drive and I'll report what I think afterwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

What can I say Red – you’ve done it again. That’s why these forums are so invaluable for us Joe-Blog’s (owners) as the information just keeps flowing along (thanks for the great info Red).

Definitely looks like the best option (for me) is to go for the Turbo-back (if you can afford it), with the resonated only 1.1dB’s more than the Cat-back non-resonated. Ok, the extra £120-150 could be used for other mods, but this does give an extra 10-15Bhp and 10lb/ft of torque over the Cat-back system, so the extra costs are justified for the extra OOOOOOOMPPPPPPPHHHHHH

[silentandy]

Red, you are going to get a remap now? There's no stopping you is there!

[RedRobin]

Hi Andy, please believe me when I say that I haven't decided! I am defo swopping Cat-back (front end only) for Turbo-back - It's ordered and West Tuning are fitting it free.

I know so little about re-mapping but I am of course interested if a 'minor' re-map improves the acceleration in the upper range....60-110 for example....But I'm not seeking higher bhp for the sake of extra stresses on standard parts and practical driveability. I don't want to be chirping and twitching down the high street or eating tyres etc. I shall enjoy chatting with them at West Tuning and will learn things I didn't know. Even if they can offer me an attractive 'small package' I would see how I find the Turbo-back with its 220 bhp first. I'm not in competition with anyone either on or off the road and will only consider what suits me.

In fact the cost of my modding to date has not been as extensive as it appears when you consider that my Audio&SatNav spend was the same as the VW factory option (but much better quality) and that my Reversing Beepers cost less but are VW approved.

Whatever I spend on 'mods' I do not view it as an investment whereby I get my money back and neither does it increase the value of my car for resale. If/when I sell my GTI it will be bought by someone who wants her for what she is - WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). She'll have been 'driven' and enjoyed but not thrashed within an inch of her life.

[GTiMK5]

When I ordered my cat back from West Tuning he asked me if I wanted the turbo back he informed me that no re-mapping was required to fit this which is the same as Red says. I decided to go with the cat back for the time being and if at a later date I feel the need to improve it I have that option, obviously at a slightly greater cost.

[RedRobin]

....I'm absolutely sure that you'll be so happy with your Cat-back Non-Res....Just a bit of extra power and throttle response and a very, very useful and enjoyable improvement in your exhaust note. Don't forget that they take about 1,000 miles for the sound to mature. It will be very sweet with the manual GTI.

[jason_s]

hello red,

re what you said about getting the tuning done to the customers needs. i have spoken to several companies MTM, revo, APR, AMD technik. they all say that their programmes are standard for the mark 5 gti and that they dont taylor it specifically to individual needs.....will west tuning taylor it to my needs? do you have their website page or tel no please.

also, how on earth did you get them to fit it for free? are you in the know? even milltek will charge me £70 for the resonator. although i would have had to pay for it if fitting at the same time anyway so its no problem paying.

[jason_s]

the head guy at awsome is getting apr to taylor the gti remap specifically for the full milltek sports system we have. he recons they can get more out of it.

[GTiMK5]

Jay,

Website for West Tuning http://www.west-tuning.com/

Think what Red is meaning is that he has to buy the parts but West Tuning dont charge any labour fees for fitting Milltek products if bought through them.

I got quotes from a few Milltek suppliers in my local area and some were charging £90 for the fitting on top of buying the product.

[GTiMK5]

Red,

How did you know mine was a manual. I know I have posted it before but that was ages ago? Either a lucky guess, you have good memory or you have been doing your homework.

[RedRobin]

Jay - As GTiMK5 says: I buy the Milltek parts from West Tuning but they don't charge me for fitting them. They are down my way at Thruxton Race Circuit on A303.

I think that West Tuning will tailor it PRIMARILY to suit the car but bearing in mind what the owner/driver would wish to achieve/avoid - That's what I'm going to find out on my visit next week. Of course, I could be wrong.

How is your problem going?

GTiMK5 - Thanks for explaining to Jay about parts and fitting costs. I thought you were manual because most people here include "DSG" in their signature when they have it. A logical deduction rather than a guess/memory/homework.

[jason_s]

thanks Robin problem solved. there putting in a new windscreen monday and ive told them about the 1/2 tank of the finest gone and 90 miles added. she didnt quite know what to say siad i would keep an eye on it next time and will be contacting vw uk if it happens again.

[RedRobin]

Jay - Do a "Scooby" and photograph the car's readout mileage etc etc when you arrive at the dealer's . You've got proof then! You obviously need a small digital camera to do this.

[jason_s]

hello robin,

so how are you getting on with your turbo back?

how have you found the increased noise levels on the motorway? i take it you didnt go for the resonated then?

[RedRobin]

Hi Jay....Turbo-back being fitted next Wednesday at West Tuning. I'm starting off by keeping the Non-resonated system and will only swop to Resonated if I find it too much. Funnily enough I'm not so bothered by the drone now....It's only if revs are held between 3,200-3,500 and it's easy to pedal away from it.

I'll obviously report more fully in time.

How are you getting on with your Milltek system?

Robin

[GTiMK5]

Red,

Are you saying that you get a drone at those revs with the cat back? In your original review you said that there was no real drone. Has this drone started recently and how bad would you describe it? I know you say it ie easy to pedal away but just trying to get a better understanding of what its like.

Cheers.

[jason_s]

Hi Robin,

ive just spoken to ray today and have just booked my car in at west tuning for 3 weeks time. am having their road remap (the one you drove), the resonator, koni fsd shocks and anti roll bars fitted.

just want to see if my grin can get any wider !!!

had a great time in france, only got flashed twice

i got my GTI up to 156 mph on the flat, i think i could have got a bit more out of her but traffic was approaching fast...... even my girlfriend got 140 out of her not sure which was more terrifying

[silentandy]

Whats the typical price difference between cat back and turbo back?

I'm assuming by turbo back you mean the complete system as described as HI-FLOW SPORTS CAT AND DOWNPIPE on the milltek website... I can't fend a mention of turbo back for the GTI?

[RedRobin]

Hi GTiMK5, Yes I get a drone at those revs with Cat-back with Non-Resonated and it has only become apparent after the sound generally matured after about 1,000 miles. But I don't find it a real problem. As with anything to do with exhaust sound it's both difficult to describe and to record accurately. I'm not sure even whether to call it a drone....It's simply the engine's continuous sound at continuous revs. The worst it can be is if you are listening to music at lower volumes and the exhaust note is an entirely different key!!

[RedRobin]

Hi Andy, I'm not able to give you a meaningful price difference because a) I was given a special deal and b) I'm only replacing the Cat-back front end with the Turbo-back front end and not the Non-Resonated section (unless too noisy) nor Quad exits. "Turbo-back" is just colloquial for 'Hi-Flow Sports Cat and Downpipe' - Same thing.

[GTiMK5]

Cheers Red,

Guess I will find out exactly what you are talking about in a couple of weeks.

[RedRobin]

Hi Jay, Doubtless you read my 'report' on my drive of that car....Very very smooooth. I'm jealous! I'm seeing Ray again next week....He's going to fit my Turbo-back.

I don't want to pee on your parade or whatever the expression is, but 156 on the clock is not 156 true speed. SatNav would give you about 140-ish for a 156 clock speed. Point is you went extremely fast and enjoyed it all Robin

[GTiMK5]

The difference between my speedo and GPS is much smaller at greater speeds and there is not a huge amount of variation at lower speeds, approx 5mph so I assume from this that the accuracy of the speedo varies from car to car. Certainly wouldnt expect it to be 16mph out.

[dazdot]

[ QUOTE ]

the accuracy of the speedo varies from car to car

[/ QUOTE ]

It must do. 100mph on the speedo of mine shows as 97 on my gps. Yet on my work van (renault trafic) the speedo is 1mph out.

[jason_s]

no way guys !!!

if 147 is the top speed on the books then i would guess another 15 bhp from the exhausts would make this speed realistic. i would hasten to add that with gps theres always a lag and this could explain the lower speeds. one thing i did notice is that when doing several runs i had approx 60 miles to go and i was doing 120 mph, the gps was still saying it would take an hour to reach my destination (which was all motorway). this would mean it was registering 60 mph not 120. then it would drop from 55 minutes to destination one second to 45 minutes the next. i can only assume that its the gps lag in working things out. im no expert on this but it seems to make sense

[RedRobin]

Well my experience doesn't match....The speed difference at higher speeds is progressively greater and at 120 on the clock held for a couple of miles, my Road Angel is reading 105. I don't experience any delay on my Road Angel working by satellite. My SatNav is a separate Pioneer system. At 30 on my clock, my Angel reads 27....Day in and day out.