nutkins Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I bet it does - Not only is there the increase in power that will give obvious benefits with aftermarket stuff. But they use much better D/A converters so the sound quality in general is much better. When I changed the head unit in my Cooper S the difference was like night and day. A lot of Pioneer units use Burr Brown too which sound lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 I've always liked what I call a "natural" sound and Pioneer do deliver. Nice to know why....Thanks Going to watch Frank Skinner on TV now - A good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I bet it does - Not only is there the increase in power that will give obvious benefits with aftermarket stuff. But they use much better D/A converters so the sound quality in general is much better. When I changed the head unit in my Cooper S the difference was like night and day. A lot of Pioneer units use Burr Brown too which sound lovely. [/ QUOTE ] Ok rant time lol. blaim the Burr Brown coment lol. As an E&E engineer i must point out its not just the D/A chips that make the difference infact its often not the D/A chips its the analogue processing side of the circuit. You will also often find its a simple change in frequency responce of the headunit or available volume or some type of DSP going on in the aftermarket unit so you think it sounds better. Unless its strick ABX blind tested its not really a fare comparison imo. BB chips are hyped to the hills there specs are not that great and there not always the best for a given circuit design infact BB are now owned by texas instruments and imho are not what they were. People seem to see the BB label name that gets stuck on allsorts nowadays and think its something magical when its not. On the subject of aftermarket you will often find too that OEM equipment is made by an aftermarket company using the same design but often built to a higher standard as it has to be more durable and last longer than aftermarket. On the subject of OEM equipment you often find the frequency responce has been 'taylored' in someway to what the manufacturer wants and in the case of the mk5 VW golf have put a spike at about 5Khz iirc and cut 50Hz down off to help make the speakers last so not good for the overall frequency responce and of cause sound quality. Rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 [ QUOTE ] There was a photocopy of a VW memo that went around a while ago (can't remember which forum). Basically it said they removed 2 midrange speakers on the 06 spec cars, meaning 8 speakers rather than 10. This only applied to RCD300 though. RCD500 (and proabably Nav) stayed with 10. [/ QUOTE ] If you click the 3 links to the 3 pages i posted about before your post you will see the memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkins Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 [ QUOTE ] If you click the 3 links to the 3 pages i posted about before your post you will see the memo [/ QUOTE ] Snoopy - can't believe I missed that and was hoping noone would notice! And it looks like you've just voluntered yourself as the MK5 audio QA man When are you installing your gear? What head unit are you going for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bal5sidhu Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Time to come out of the TSN closet! Finally ordered in Sep after weeks of hassle and, at one stage, being resigned to losing the car(getting it on contract hire). Silver 3drDSG, 17's, winter pack, highline,armrest. expecting delivery Feb 06. Sacrificed RCD500 in favour of other stuff - does anyone know if it's possible to add Rainbow midrange spkrs without too much surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Snoopy - can't believe I missed that and was hoping noone would notice! And it looks like you've just voluntered yourself as the MK5 audio QA man When are you installing your gear? What head unit are you going for? [/ QUOTE ] LOL, This time going for a budget system compared to previous years systems in the past that have used exotic and expensive gear. Yes i have had thing like Pioneer P9, Sinfoni amps, Phoenix gold amps, Nakamichi headunits, exotic cables etc etc. In this system I want to show tuning, setup, location and speakers are the most important parts of any audio system and that Headunit, processor, Amplifiers, wiring are not as important as the majority of people have been brain washed into believing by both home and car audio audiophile magazines. Oh no i sound like im preaching again. lol. System plan so far has Alpine DVA-9860R, Alpine PXA-H701, Alpine RUX-C701, Genesis Pofile 4 Ultra (on mids & tweeters), Genesis Profile 2 Ultra (midbass), Genesis Profile Sub (on the sub). The speakers if it works out will be prototypes from a new American caraudio company. Front speaker System will be run active. (no passive crossovers) I could have bought the top of the range gear like the alpine F#1 and the Genesis series 3 or other makes but i want to show you can have just as good sounding audio if its installed right setup and most important tuned correct. Install will start if/when i get my hands on the speakers so i can sortout exact how i want the frontend and how much cutting is needed G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 There does seem a lack of Mk5 Golfs with sound quality based competition systems in heres a few pictures of a Mk5 with the £2700 Focal Utopia BE drivers in it i found though. Not my cup of tea but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Time to come out of the TSN closet! Finally ordered in Sep after weeks of hassle and, at one stage, being resigned to losing the car(getting it on contract hire). Silver 3drDSG, 17's, winter pack, highline,armrest. expecting delivery Feb 06. Sacrificed RCD500 in favour of other stuff - does anyone know if it's possible to add Rainbow midrange spkrs without too much surgery? [/ QUOTE ] The problem is the crossover and geting them to all blend together. It maybe better to change the lot to the rainbows. Not a cheap option but not a hard option its basically iirc drilling the rivits out that hold the standard speakers in and screwing the newones in and of cause wiring them up but if you get the IQ rainbow replacments most the stuff is supplied and not hard to do. And at the end of the day before you hand the car back or sell it you simply take the door cards off again unscrew/disconnect the rainbows and screw the old VW ones back in. Or if you simply want to keep standard and replace the mid you could find a crashed Mk5 and take the crossover and midrange drivers from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bal5sidhu Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Thanks for the advice Snoopy. Excuse the ignorance but, as the 06 spec cars have lost the midrange spkrs, will it involve "creating" the space to install rainbow custom fits or do the gaps remain and you can just slot them in as per the other 8 spkrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 I've bought a set of rainbow 3-ways to go into the doors of my 3-door 06 spec GTI and there is definately space for all the speakers in standard door locations. If the number of speakers has been reduced for '06 it must only be in the back of the car as mine definately has 6 speakers in the front. Although the Rainbows do fit in the standard positions, I definately wouldn't say that they are easy to fit. Even the importers admit that these are difficult (unlike the description given on the Rainbow website!). I took the speakers to one of the UK's best installers and after 5 hours they gave up saying that they would have to cut into the VW wiring loom to finish the wiring which would invalidate the VW warranty so I've ended up with speakers installed and can't listen to them. I am currently waiting for an installer who has been recommended by Rainbow to finish the job but even this company admitted that the first set they installed took 3 days! If anyone has managed to fit these easily I would love to know how they did it. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotw Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 I notice on the VW site they list some speaker upgrades as options, does anyone know if these are any good? As these are VW ones, they must be easier to fit than the Rainbow ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 don't know about fitting but they come as part of the optional soundpack so you'll need guys with this option to chip in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I've bought a set of rainbow 3-ways to go into the doors of my 3-door 06 spec GTI and there is definately space for all the speakers in standard door locations. If the number of speakers has been reduced for '06 it must only be in the back of the car as mine definately has 6 speakers in the front. Although the Rainbows do fit in the standard positions, I definately wouldn't say that they are easy to fit. Even the importers admit that these are difficult (unlike the description given on the Rainbow website!). I took the speakers to one of the UK's best installers and after 5 hours they gave up saying that they would have to cut into the VW wiring loom to finish the wiring which would invalidate the VW warranty so I've ended up with speakers installed and can't listen to them. I am currently waiting for an installer who has been recommended by Rainbow to finish the job but even this company admitted that the first set they installed took 3 days! If anyone has managed to fit these easily I would love to know how they did it. Jamie [/ QUOTE ] Interesting, A mate of mine said he fitted his in a couple of hours and it was not a huge problem only reason he said it took so long was that he was extremely careful not to mark the door panel so took ages with them. Our of interest who is the installer you refer too as i know most the top install companys in the Uk. I really cannot see why there so hard after seeing whats behind the door panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 From a german website i found. Door panel with midrange driver shown still attached. Midrange driver removed from door. I think from the text it says its 115mm and 40mm depth. standard VW Tweeter. Standard 3 way VW passive crossover works at 280Hz and 5Khz. As can be seen standard midbass unit is rivited to the door. So the rivits will need driling out. Rainbow speakers to replace the VW ones. Rainbow passives Rainbow Midrange drivers fixed to the door. Also note one of the passive crossover glued to the door panel. Rainbow have a strainge way of doing passives. they come in 2 boxes for each side (4 in all) One box does the midbass & tweeters. The other just does the midrange. note the other passive crossover is mounted in this slot and held with tape and foam probably not the best place for cooling but if this is the one thats for the midrange (rather than the midbass/tweeter one) and only using headunit power it should be ok. Shows the spacer adaptor for the new midbass unit. Door wiring plug that you may need to tap into for speaker wire outputs or may not. The website is at http://www.golf5-sound.de for anyone that can read German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Although the Rainbows do fit in the standard positions, I definately wouldn't say that they are easy to fit. Even the importers admit that these are difficult (unlike the description given on the Rainbow website!). I took the speakers to one of the UK's best installers and after 5 hours they gave up saying that they would have to cut into the VW wiring loom to finish the wiring which would invalidate the VW warranty so I've ended up with speakers installed and can't listen to them. I am currently waiting for an installer who has been recommended by Rainbow to finish the job but even this company admitted that the first set they installed took 3 days! [/ QUOTE ] Four are new distributors and new to rainbowdistribution. o from the above im getting the imprrsssion you have had the speakers installed and it took them 5 hours? But there not wired up, They can get adaptor plugs for the VW wiring to wire them in or remove the pins from the plugs in the doors and buy new pins from VW and solder new wires to them to go to the rainbow passives and wire them up. Its not rocket science its got me puzzled, other dealer says took 3 days have your talked to the sales man or the installer as sounds like salesman bs to me. 3 days yea right just sounds like hes trying to fob you off and does not want to take on other dealers mess. Invalidate the VW warranty well you have done that already changing a component. What normally happens is VW only invalidate the bit thats changed so for example you change that wire you invalidate that part of the loom i cannot see why they have had such a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 The installer I referred to was SQ Plus in Manchester (http://www.sqplus.com/). They did a fantastic job of installing the other ICE in the car and have made a custom sub box for a JL sub in the side of the boot and an amp rack for the JL amps which looks amazing. The problems only came with the Rainbow install. Two sets of instructions were provided, but half of the instructions were in German that contained the most relevant information. Some of the wiring on the Rainbows was not long enough to link to the standard VW wiring, for example from the tweater. SQ Plus were not happy cutting into the VW loom to complete the wiring and were convinced that there were parts missing from the Rainbow kit. After speaking to Rainbow they put me in touch with Mega Watt in Runcorn which are meant to be completing the wiring next weekend. It's Mega Watt that told me it took 3 days to do the first install of Rainbows into a MK5 Golf, not because they couldn't fit them, but because it took ages experimenting to get the correct settings and tweater positions to get them sounding right. The original installation apparently sounded pretty poor until the positions had been adjusted and the crossover settings changed. I'll let you know my thoughts next week if I managed to get everything wired up on Saturday. So what are your thoughts on the sound from the Rainbow speakers? I'm hoping that they are going to be really smooth and not too bright like the standard speakers. Thanks Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Brief reply since my computer crashed just as i hit continue to reply button. arr! SQ+ i must admit is the ONLY company i would allow to install anything of mine. After reading a few posts on MKIV.net today i think Phil may have been right in that there were parts missing. I was importing rainbows before platinum ice or Four started to so i know about the instruction problems and if some were missing and you don't know how rainbow does there crossovers it can be a problem. Wiring should still not be hard to sort though especially for a company like SQ+ this has me stumped. You mension about JL amps so guess your rainbows will be powered by them so i think the problem may have been feeding the wires into the door throught the door plug/socket to the speakers and he did not want to cut or drill the plugs. Its a different 'problem' if its a simple speaker change. Bringing amps into the equation and a sub make the setup time more understandable but still for a simple passive system 3 days is a bit excesive. I was thinking it was a simple speaker change we were originally talking about. May i ask do you have any photos you could send of the builds SQ+ did for your subbox and amp rack as i like looking at others to get ideas for mine. G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 SQ Plus is the only company I would trust as well but I guess there's not really much of an alternaive with this one. I don't have any pictures of the completed job but I will try to get some posted next weekend. I've attached a picture I took with my phone of the installation part finished but the finished job was covered in alcantara and looks amazing. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 And here's the sub install part completed. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Thanks so much Jamie, Its more or less exactly what im aiming for with my new install a simple layout that will not take up loads of boot space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 [ QUOTE ] SQ Plus is the only company I would trust as well but I guess there's not really much of an alternaive with this one. I don't have any pictures of the completed job but I will try to get some posted next weekend. I've attached a picture I took with my phone of the installation part finished but the finished job was covered in alcantara and looks amazing. Jamie [/ QUOTE ] Any update on this Jamie? Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I finally managed to get the Rainbow speakers installed by Auto Installs in Clitheroe and the finished job now sounds great. I still can't really understand why SQ Plus couldn't or wouldn't install these speakers as Auto Installs didn't have any problems at all. I will post some pictures of the sub and amp shortly. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Here's the pictures of the finished sub and amp installations. The quality of the finish from SQ Plus is fantastic. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbogolf Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 And here's the sub... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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