Audi S3 Vs Golf R32

[Oli]

Due to the recent problems with my .:R, in a moment of frustration I phoned our Audi supplier and asked them to lend me the new S3 for a couple of days, so I could see what I thought.

The car was delivered to my work yesterday for a 48 test drive. The spec is as follows P.D.C., Phantom Black, Xenons, heated Seats, Satellite Navigation, Phone prep and BOSE.

My initial thoughts were, very plain from the outside, but on getting in was rewarded with the usual high quality AUDI look, except the centre parts of the seats, not sure if they were leather or not, looked very, very cheap. The seats dont have a lumber support, which is very strange on a top end vehicle, and the seats are nowhere near as comfy as the Golf's. It didnt have the flat bottom steering wheel, which was also a bit of a let down, and the standard wheel doesn't have a good feel to it. I think that the wheels are too plain, and that the car could really benefit from bigger arches to set it apart from a standard A3.

On starting it up, the noise was very familiar to my old GTI, sort of a chuggy old diesel sound (no offence meant). When blipping the throttle the exhaust note too was very familiar to the GTI.

On first driving up the road, the big difference between the GTI and the S3, apart from the traction is the turbo lag and lack of low down torque. The Turbo on the S3 starts spooling at 3000 RPM, but really doesnt get going until 4000RPM, and from there till just over 7000RPM all hell breaks loose. If you change gear early and then plant your foot you have to wait till 4000RPM to get any serious performance out of it. However if you are driving it hard and are constantly above 4000RPM, this is one seriously quick car, with a real shove to hold you in the seat. There is a good turbo whistle sound as well when pushing this car hard, and as already mentioned the traction is amazing. Its a shame that it has this much turbo lag, but that is typical of a car with a bigger turbo. Its a shame they didnt just strengthen the GTI engine and turbo and remapp it to stage three, that way it would have a good level torque band and make the car more driveable. In its present state you either seem to to drive the car normally or ridiculously fast, there doesnt seem to be any middle ground, maybe this is something you would get used to though.

The S3 does feel a lot lighter than the R32 to drive and more chuckable, but doesnt feel as sure footed as the R32. There is a big dead spot right in the middle of the steering which makes it slightly vague. On entering a corner hard the S3 understeers initially, and after further throttle pressure eventually turns into mild oversteer.

The brakes are fantasic on the car just like the .:R's, and there is no woodenness at all at any speed.

Overall the car was good fun to drive especially when the turbo was blowing, but wasnt as surefooted as the Golf. I really wanted to like this car but it just didnt drive as well as the .:R, and really suffered from turbo lag, which lets the car down big style. If I had to mark it out of ten it would be a 5!!!!

[rs32]

wow, am surprised you weren't that impressed Oli, it should by all accounts be a fantastic car but the GTI(and Ed30) will take some beating for flexibility because of the reduced turbo-lag.

I'm still very glad I ditched the Impreza WRX for the MkV .:R - it was the lag that drove me to changing.

Also a bit concerned that the S3's steering felt a bit wierd - did it feel "disconnected" from the road or just plain wrong ?

[AZURES3]

It would be easy for me to think this was just a Golf drivers biased view but I am sure it is not. I have driven the Golf GTI and the Mkv R32 and cant agree with you some of the comments but then you could say I own an S3.

Looks, yes this one has been done to death, give me flared arches and 19" RS4 wheels please.

Engine startup noise, agreed it is not as good as the R32 but what a noise the S3 makes when it gets going.

Turbo lag, agreed there is lag but along with the improved build quality and centre seat leather quality over the demo cars the turbo gets going at about 2,800 on customer cars. Also as the 2.0T is so smooth and when the turbo is really spinning you get a massive surge it appears to be more lag than it is at lower revs. Personally it suits my driving style but that my preference. I found the R32 V6 a bit lazy in comparison but it sounded great.

Feeling shorefooted, the S3 feels very nimbel and lighter compared to the R32 but not the GTI which obvioulsysaves weight with the FWD setup. The R32 like the A3 3.2 is nose heavy and the S3 is 70 Kilos lighter at the font than the R32 and IMHO is shows on the corners and the ability to have less rock solid shocks. I am sure a private race track test will be in order but so far the S3 is 1-2 seconds faster round a track than the R32

Brakes, agreed they are amazing but with the S3 being so much lighter at the front it brakes without feeling like it is going to do an endo

Both cars are great and I know the enthusiasts choice would be the R32 for the V6 BUT me along with several people I know find the image of the R32 a little boy racer, sorry just my view, thats not to say it not a great car

AZ

[S3Rob]

[ QUOTE ]

Both cars are great and I know the enthusiasts choice would be the R32 for the V6 BUT me along with several people I know find the image of the R32 a little boy racer, sorry just my view, thats not to say it not a great car

[/ QUOTE ]

Just not as great as the S3.

[AZURES3]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Both cars are great and I know the enthusiasts choice would be the R32 for the V6 BUT me along with several people I know find the image of the R32 a little boy racer, sorry just my view, thats not to say it not a great car

[/ QUOTE ]

Just not as great as the S3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both good cars just 1 suits me better.

AZ

[Oli]

[ QUOTE ]

Turbo lag, agreed there is lag but along with the improved build quality and centre seat leather quality over the demo cars the turbo gets going at about 2,800 on customer cars. Also as the 2.0T is so smooth and when the turbo is really spinning you get a massive surge it appears to be more lag than it is at lower revs.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is, that with technology how good that it is, and after the TFSI engine in the GTI and A3 2.0T, I expected this engine to be amazing but it seems to have taken a step back not forward. With most manufacturers trying to eliminate turbo lag, AUDI seem to have included it and lots of it.

[Oli]

Oh and Im not trying to start a R32 /S3 arguement, but I drive lots of cars every week and as the owner of an .:R it seemed an ideal candidate for comparison

[AZURES3]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Turbo lag, agreed there is lag but along with the improved build quality and centre seat leather quality over the demo cars the turbo gets going at about 2,800 on customer cars. Also as the 2.0T is so smooth and when the turbo is really spinning you get a massive surge it appears to be more lag than it is at lower revs.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is, that with technology how good that it is, and after the TFSI engine in the GTI and A3 2.0T, I expected this engine to be amazing but it seems to have taken a step back not forward. With most manufacturers trying to eliminate turbo lag, AUDI seem to have included it and lots of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be the first person on here that I have read that thinks it is very noticeable, I guess coming from the R32 where it is so smooth and linear it comes as a bit of a shock. I certainly wouldn't call this engine a step back though far from it, in fact many reviews say it the best bit and when tuned to 280 BHP for the new TT 2.0Tq I am sure it will be even better.

Oh by the way agree about the standard wheel cheeky to have to pay £270 for the flat bottom one but well worth it to elimiate the standard one

Either way they are both great cars and IMHO aimed at different markets.

AZ

[AZURES3]

[ QUOTE ]

Oh and Im nt trying to start a R32 /S3 arguement, but I drive lots of cars every week and as the owner of an .:R it seemed an ideal candidate for comparison

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey this is TSN and 99% of the time these reviews are non biased and it makes interesting reading, hence my opening line. Like wise I am not trying to start the R32 vs. S3 punch up, there is too many of you in comparison

AZ

[S3Rob]

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Like wise I am not trying to start the R32 vs. S3 punch up, there is too many of you in comparison

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite right, now is not the time and place.

The Nurburgring on the other hand.........

[rs32]

to be completley fair the S3 can be turned into a 300+ bhp uber-grip-meister with fairly low expenditure so in terms of potential bang-for-buck it has the .:R beat.

If I were being critical I'd say it doesn't have the subtle styling flair of the old S3, but there again the MkV .:R does not have the visual kick of the MkIV so it's swings and roundabouts.

Both cars seem to have turned out visually and physically as grown up "more normal" versions of their predecessors - but that's just my opinion !

I like the idea of lightened suspension components on the Audi - If I could combine that plus the S3 interior with the V6 then it could be very tempting. But sadly that would be a kit-car at present

[AZURES3]

[ QUOTE ]

to be completley fair the S3 can be turned into a 300+ bhp uber-grip-meister with fairly low expenditure so in terms of potential bang-for-buck it has the .:R beat.

If I were being critical I'd say it doesn't have the subtle styling flair of the old S3, but there again the MkV .:R does not have the visual kick of the MkIV so it's swings and roundabouts.

Both cars seem to have turned out visually and physically as grown up "more normal" versions of their predecessors - but that's just my opinion !

I like the idea of lightened suspension components on the Audi - If I could combine that plus the S3 interior with the V6 then it could be very tempting. But sadly that would be a kit-car at present

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

Now the RS3 with a 5 cylinder 2.5 Litre twin turbo pushing out 350 BHP yes please Doubt it will ever happen though

AZ

[rs32]

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Now the RS3 with a 5 cylinder 2.5 Litre twin turbo pushing out 350 BHP yes please

[/ QUOTE ]

very interesting this - when the MkV .:R appeared owners and general commentators alike said "if only they had gone for the full-beans version".

we're just never happy, eh ?

Oh, and I agree on the 2.5 TT 5-pot - was told a month or so back that a tuning house has already seen this engine and rated as at least 350 horses

[RedRobin]

Having never driven an S3 my comments are going to be somewhat unqualified. However, it sounds as if Audi have missed a trick or two - There is no excuse for turbo lag nowadays and if there is going to be a DSG version then what about the lack of low down torque which Oli reports?

In these days of speed restrictions here in the UK, I think that I would prefer a performance car that delivers without having to be wound up first. I believe that the earlier Hondas were criticised for that too. The R32 delivers early on, more like the GTI.

The Audi S3 I sat in at the Autostadt had the best instrumentation I've seen for a long time and the build quality 'feel' was excellent but seats in any performance car should be as good as the Mk5 .:R and GTI.

I'm not sure that Audi quite understand what's wanted and expected of an S-series regarding the '3'. Or is there going to be a RS3 ?

[Snoopy]

As some of you know from coments i have made elsewere i too have had a S3 on lone but only for a few hours.

I have also had a R32 on lone in the past a few months back so can compare.

My views are totally different to Oli's on this car and more inline with what AZURES3 has said.

Theres a noticable pull at around 2500rpm below that its not as quick but not dead and not extreme turbo lag and at 4K it seems to take off again. So in this respect compared to the GTI that imo starts pulling well from 2K its only slightly more laggy but only slight by about 500rpm and it also pulls harder right up the rev range.

Looks i like the more Q car look in this day and age rather than boy racer and i think it works well on this car especially in the sprint blue of the one i had i do think the SLines wheels look better than the S3s though, Im sure a more OTT RS3 version will come with time for the people who like to stand out rather than have a classy fast hatch.

I do agree it understeers initally but so does every car with haldex including the R32. I found it far more surefooted than the R32 and it does not roll its front end like the R32 did and cornered far more flat. The steering though is a disapointment far too light and has abit of a dead ahead feeling alot like old old Audis did. For some reason this does effect the R32 to a small degree too and to every haldex car i have driven including a TT.

The interior i thought was far better quality than VWs especially the dash but the seats were a huge disapointment the optional Recaros that could have been fitted are the same as the R32/GTI option so im told and been a 3 door you will need to be limbo to climb in the back if recaros are fitted so not really a good option to improve on the not so sport seats, the standard seats as someone with a bad lower back problem and often suffers with seats (even the GTIs after a few hours i had to pad them out a bit) are comfortable though unlike the slines.

The S3 really needs the flat bottomed wheel option fitted imo the standard one is a disapointment and i really missed the GTIs wheel when driving the S3.

The ride is harder than the GTis but not a huge amount, i could live with the ride its far better than i expected after driving other A3s.

After getting back into the GTI after handing it back the GTI felt slight more smoother power delivery but more flat and of cause i ended up spinning the front wheels more than once trying to pull out of junctions. DOH!.

[RedRobin]

[ QUOTE ]

Looks i like the more Q car look in this day and age rather than boy racer and i think it works well on this car...................Im sure a more OTT RS3 version will come with time for the people who like to stand out rather than have a classy fast hatch.

[/ QUOTE ]

....I just cannot see how any R32 can be described as looking "boy racer" or that any RS Audi to date can be justifiably described as "OTT" (Over The Top).

Either way, the S3 offers slightly different features than the R32.

[Oli]

Snoopy, you mention that your views are totaly different to mine and yet from what I can read, we both agree that there is trubo lag, we both agree that the car looks very understated, we both agree that the wheels are plain, we both agree on the vagueness in the steering, we agreed on the good build quality, we agreed that the steering wheel needs to be the flat bottomed type and finally we agreed that the seats are poor!

Please also bear in mind I road-tested these cars back to back, so just kept jumping from one to the other. Wih regards to the understeer the Audi just seems to be more pronounced than on the Golf, which I feel has a good turn in.

From what I can see we agree on quite a lot

[RobA3]

[ QUOTE ]

Due to the recent problems with my .:R, in a moment of frustration I phoned our Audi supplier and asked them to lend me the new S3 for a couple of days, so I could see what I thought.

The car was delivered to my work yesterday for a 48 test drive.

How did you manage to have a 48 hour test drive.

[Snoopy]

Oli

Hi mate, The more i wrote and expanded my post into a review rather than a comparison the more we did agree on so yes your correct.

My 'totally different' coment is the engine you noticed in the example you drove was totally different to the one i drove.

To me the car was like a GTI but pulled harder in the higher revs, What i meen by this is at lower revs it pulled as well as the GTI had as much torque as the GTI BUT at around the 4K mark it pulled far better than the GTI. Below 2500 there was slight differences as the GTI gets in its stride at 2K were the S3 was nearer 2.5K not really noticable as they seemed to have similar torque at similar low revs just the S3 higher torque peaked later ment it felt like it got in its stride very slightly later.

Robin,

I was not comparing it for looks at that point i was saying in this day and age its a prestige upmarket fast hatch without big arches, massive wheels to standout to a theif, car jacker etc A semi Q car in some respects, The fast model does not have to always stand out in a range imo, its often better to have something that blends in better with only supple differences in my view in todays climate.

My personal view if you want to know on comparison of the looks is, I think the R32 with its silver front is garish, the twin tailpipes on the rear are very clio hothatch/maxpower ie boy racer like. Golfs often attract the boy racers due to there looks were Audi S models don't so much due to them looking more restraint, prestige & classy. RS Audis they are done up to attract the BMW boys in my opinion huge wheels very low ride height etc. Just my view that im entitled too. It's plain to see Robin we have different views on such things from our taste in cars mine a restrained dark colour in standard spec that blend in while yours is quite modified in bright red. Neither of us is right or wrong though but i can see were Audi were coming from with the looks of the S range of cars from the past and present day models.

[Oli]

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How did you manage to have a 48 hour test drive.

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I sell lots of Audi's..........easy really!!!

[RedRobin]

Hi Geoff, No problems mate . I see where you're coming from on this. Each to their own and I have every respect for the Audi - It's just not to my taste.

[Snoopy]

Some things i found in the A3/S3 section that may interest people looking for reviews.

Cannot remember who posted what originally but thanks to who ever they were.

Fifth gear track tips with S3

Sabine Schmitz test of R32 v S3 in German

Recaros & S3 German review

Power Graphs of new S3 old S3 and GTI engines for comparison

[fresco1]

Friend of mine (from SA) always reckoned that once you owned your first Audi, you would always go back to them. They seem to be a big seller in SA amongst 'people who know'.

Quite possibly apart from anyone who has been killed, I have had a seriously crap time with Audi's in the last 3 years (mechanical failure on one really did come to a life or death experience).

But having said that, as much as I love my GTI for being a 'drivers car', I could always see myself going back to Audi for a future car. Yes, they are that good when you're living with them day in day out.

My personal take (for what it's worth) is that the S and RS series really suits the A4 upwards. Not completely convinced on the S3 just yet - but I've not been in one. I just think that in terms of bang per buck, you can't beat a GTI or R32 for the money. And for my own money, I went for the GTI as I could see the value / performance trade-off.

If it wasn't my money, or I didn't have a wife, kids, mortgage etc, I'd buy any of the S series and be happy as Larry. But I reckon I'd start shopping from the A4 upwards. The R32 is just too close to the S3 for me to bite (totally personal choice of course).

But I don't doubt for a second that anyone who gets an S3 will be mega happy!

[Gabster]

I had an two S3's over three years and an R32 Mark IV for a year. I have had a day in the new S3 before Xmas and a test drive in the new Mark V R32.

Out of all four I would have the Mark IV R32 I was dissapointed with the new R32 as it was to much like a motorway cruiser and the new S3 is just to bland. I wanted to love the new S3 but I just look at it and think Audi have not made an effort in making it radically different from the rest of the Audi's A3 range and the engine bored me, the build quality in the new S3 though is as good as any car I have been in. The engine sound in the S3 to be honest disapointed me the old S3 was never aurally beautiful and this car is the same, its one of the most important things in driving to hear the engine burbling away.

What I would love was the old S3 with its flared arches and different look with the 3.2 VW lump in it with the R32 exhaust.

I wnted to love both the new S3 and new R32 but I am afraid they seem to have been built for a price, we all know it happens but I dont want to notice it. Also perhaps my car expectations have changed since the early 2000s when I had the R32 and the S3.