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REVO'd R32 Breaks their Rolling Road!!!


ChrisR32
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Not quite but i thought that might get every-one's attention!! fuck_scott.gif

The Lambda sensor broke yesterday so they couldn't get any definate power gain figures but the owner of the car that they have chipped said the mid range is definately more responsive! ECLIPSe.gif

Incidentaly, the encrypted stock programs which were being discussed last week - i had a long chat with the gent at REVO HO and he was very helpful and ran down the toos and fros of this.

Apparantly the encryption is only an issue with 1.8T cars as REVO adjust the tables of turboed cars to get more performance, something which other tuners do not do. The tables (whatever the fcuk theses are?????- help!!) do not revert back to stock and so a hex-download can indicate that the ECU has been re-programed!

He assures me that this would not be an issue with the NA engines though!! sekret.gif

Any more thoughts on this?

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IIRC the ecu tables store information about correct running parameters of your car.

For exmaple a map might say when the engine is at X temp run at an idle of Y

So the table would read seomthing like

x y

10 1200

20 1000

30 900

40 800

50 750

60 750

70 750

etc etc... (obviously i just made these up)

You also get things like the windows for engine timings in there. Which will adjust according to fuel quality (based on what the knock sensor picks up).

So the engine will try and run at the upper end of its timings and has it detects early detonation it will back down the scale until it finds the level it can run at correctly. Don't ask me what the alorythm that does the backing off is mind. But the values of where the car will start and where it will back down too go into the tables. Which is why some tuners had maps for high fuel quality like optimax.

Enough from me already!

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[ QUOTE ]

He assures me that this would not be an issue with the NA engines though!!

[/ QUOTE ] possibly a similar method to the AmD one-click???

Dongle stores oem ECU flash and re-programs with new Revo mapping... then when you plug it in, it`ll reflash the ECU with the oem mapping.......

Maybe confused.gif

Riz

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But the issue here is the encryption. The only point of encrypting code is to protect theft. Like if you're actually doing something cool in there, so to speak.

Perhaps as the R32 is a NA engine all they do is change a couple of easy to figure out falues (fueling, timings etc) and hence its not worth encrypting. In which case the code will read as it did in the orginal code just with different values (or the same if they give you the option to switch).

Just out of curiosity (i know it killed the bison) is this an issue anyway? I know originally people beleived there cars were not going back to stock code after demos n stuff... which was true coz it was encrypted, but the values post decryption were the same. Do people actually worry someone will look at the code on their ECU for warrenty/insurance issues?

As i said just curious. smile.gif

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This sounds intresting...... so if Revo dont upload a mapping so to speak and just alter the figures of the oem ECU.... the dongle just needs to alter these figures..... so when you change back to stock it`ll be 100% undectable.

Time to wait and see i suppose, like you said all just speculation at this moment in time.....

Riz beerchug.gif

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The issue for me is the what if scenario.

My experience of VAG has been very good with any warranty work (no questions asked, just get it done!) but with other manufacturers they seem to look for every excuse under the sun to try and get out of doing the work!

The warranty is one of the reasons why i buy VAG vehicles and i guess i'm trying to find a way of chipping the car without having to worry about losing the VAG mechanical cover.

Yes, i know, i want my cake and eat it!!!

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Chris i think most people will feel the same.... everyone knows that VAG cars are usually over-engineered and can handle more power/torque etc.

Ownership of the VAG cars arent cheap either these days......

Its probably a spit verdict.

Here`s a example of what "could happen"

Engine has problems - dont tell dealer that the car is tuned, which is obviously misleading, plus if the find out without you telling time it`ll look alot worse and they will always keep this inmind.

Engine has problems - tell dealer who will then charge loads of repairs and probably add abit ontop for tuning it..... anything to get out of warranty claims

Engine has problems - If dealer is a nice chip friendly one then maybe they will do it under warranty.

Any of the above ways do legally "INVALIDATE WARRANTY"

I`m not saying tell the dealers as they make millions of pounds in over priced service charges etc etc but this choice down to the car owners.....

Also if it is public knowledge that the car is modified and VAG UK know about this.... the car gets "BLACK LISTED" and warranty will not be upheld unless they cant prove that the car has been tuned etc.

Riz beerchug.gif

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Still to hear of a dealer finding out a car was chipped by looking at the ECU code though.

I think you should be *more* worried about if a chip is going to be soldered on to the ecu. A dealer can actually check that.

Still as you said, its cake and eating it smile.gif Everything has its price smile.gif .... can't think of anything else profound to say wink.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

Not quite but i thought that might get every-one's attention!! fuck_scott.gif

The Lambda sensor broke yesterday so they couldn't get any definate power gain figures but the owner of the car that they have chipped said the mid range is definately more responsive! ECLIPSe.gif

Incidentaly, the encrypted stock programs which were being discussed last week - i had a long chat with the gent at REVO HO and he was very helpful and ran down the toos and fros of this.

Apparantly the encryption is only an issue with 1.8T cars as REVO adjust the tables of turboed cars to get more performance, something which other tuners do not do. The tables (whatever the fcuk theses are?????- help!!) do not revert back to stock and so a hex-download can indicate that the ECU has been re-programed!

He assures me that this would not be an issue with the NA engines though!! sekret.gif

Any more thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I dont believe that they wont encrypt their changes.. anyone could then nick their 'parameter changes' and use them on their own car! confused.gif

Ah well wait and see I guess!

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[ QUOTE ]

Still to hear of a dealer finding out a car was chipped by looking at the ECU code though.

I think you should be *more* worried about if a chip is going to be soldered on to the ecu. A dealer can actually check that.

Still as you said, its cake and eating it smile.gif Everything has its price smile.gif .... can't think of anything else profound to say wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I'm not sure any more! I had this exact problem with my TT. My car was chipped (physically) and a centre drive shaft bearing went. Cost of £1200 to replace - but Audi said they would pay as I'd done less than 35k miles.

I didn't mention it was chipped, and quickly paid to have it de-chipped before it went in - in case they looked at the ECU. Anyway as it turns out they mentioned some codes that were showing in the ECU showing it had been disconnected, but didnt bother looking at the actual ECU.

The ECU is a real bitch to remove from a TT (I guess its the same on the golf) so maybe nowadays a simple check with a laptop is easier!

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The encryption thing is not quite like that.

The original program has the encryption and it is the part of the program that contains the tables. When they reload the original program back to the ecu after a trial or with the switchable device, the table ranges cannot revert back to the VW settings as they are encrypted. The rest of the program is OK though - it just works the same as before but within the new parameters set by the new tables. Apparantly this is only an issue with turbo'd cars as the tables relate to the blower settings and adjusting these gets the most spectacular results.

Does this make any sense to anyone or am i turning into Whopps Mk II?????

I don't understand it, just regurgitating REVO's info but i'm beggining to know how supply teachers must feel!! wink.gif

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I'll try again!!

Bear with me, i'm not the best at technical sh!t!!

The original program, ie the stock one before it's played with, has an encrypted aspect to it which contains information tables which tell the engine certain things. These are basic parameter ranges which things like turbos must stay within the limits of. When REVO remap a chip they alter these tables to allow the turbo to have a wider working range. When the original program is reinstalled by REVO, because the original tables were encrypted they cannot be changed back to what they were originally. The rest of the program reverts to standard but the table ranges are altered permanantley (this makes no difference to performance on it's own though).

Hence a 'hex download' by a dealer or another turner will show that the tables are not the same and that the car has been played with, even though all the other running settings are completely standard.

NA engines do not gain anything from altering these so the remap does not touch the tables and therefore the remap can be completely reversed.

Any better?????????

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Wicked got it..... cheers for explaining again. beerchug.gif

So the tables remain unchanged, all revo do is upload their mapping...... so when the trial finishes the mapping returns to the oem one....

What about the full version?

Do they actually upload a mapping or just alter settings?

It all sounds confusing....... smashfreakB.gif

Riz beerchug.gif

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The trial is a full version it's just that it reverts back to the oem program after 5 hrs.

The interesting thing for me was the switchable hand-held device that holds the remap and the oem. It tkaes about 5 secs to upload either via the diagnostic ports.

My car's due for a service/warranty work, i'd better make sure i put the old program back!! Know what i mean!! sekret.gif

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