Brakes for an S3

[stevie_d]

Right people, the time has come to change my brakes (they're grumbling and whining quite a bit), so I am looking for some much needed advice

Basically I was advised to go for braided lines, different brake fluid, Tarox Japan discs and mintex road pads.

Seems a good setup, but would cost quite a bit. So is it worth it? I try to do about 2 track days a year and have found that although the standard brakes hold up well during the track day, they are pretty ropey afterwards!

So the choices are;

a) go for the above

b) go to an Audi dealer, probably just need new pads

c) another option? Maybe Porsche brake upgrade?

[Jamiekip]

If I were you i'd phase the changes in.

So, try a different dot brake fluid and change the pads for now - and see how it fairs. I did this on my old S3 and made a reasonable difference compared to the standard set up (though still pretty weak!). So far, I've found the new S3's standard set up to be pretty reasonable so haven't considered any changes. The track day I did, the brakes fared really well, though like you say, took a few hundred miles to recover from the temps they we're working at.

You need new pads anyway, so I'd go pads and fluid first, if that isn't making a big enough difference, maybe then consider the discs or braided hoses.

Be interested to know how you get on

[stevie_d]

Nice one, thanks mate, I'll get them changed and report back

[Jamiekip]

I'll be interested to hear how it goes mate!

How are those 20 spoke alloys fairing anyway????

[stevie_d]

Very well until I kerbed them

Any ideas where I can find this stuff online? Most websites seem to ignore the S3...

[Jamiekip]

Sorry to hear about your rim - nothing worse than that noise! No way you can get it repaired?

With regards the parts, I would maybe speak to QST or Awesome see what they say.

I'm guessing they could help recommend a better brake fluid at the very least.

With regards to pads most makes must do an upgraded pad by now, maybe slow on sorting out their websites!!!

Good luck

[Jamiekip]

Try here - seems to have most bit's and pieces for brakes:

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/search_car/product_sub.mhtml?car=audis3;category=frontbrakediscs

[mlhj83]

Right people, the time has come to change my brakes (they're grumbling and whining quite a bit), so I am looking for some much needed advice

Basically I was advised to go for braided lines, different brake fluid, Tarox Japan discs and mintex road pads.

Seems a good setup, but would cost quite a bit. So is it worth it? I try to do about 2 track days a year and have found that although the standard brakes hold up well during the track day, they are pretty ropey afterwards!

So the choices are;

a) go for the above

b) go to an Audi dealer, probably just need new pads

c) another option? Maybe Porsche brake upgrade?

The Mk5 R32 and S3 have the same brake setup and here are my opinions:

- Pretty much the only upgrade you can perform without changing something major is brake fluid.

- The standard brake hoses are already braided as well, if you dissect the brake hose, you will see the mesh just under the rubber skin.

- Upgrading to a higher performance pad will improve braking torque, but will decrease the life of your OEM discs

I'm on my fourth set of front discs and I do quite a number of track days. My previous 2 sets of brake disc didn't last more than 2000 miles (warped badly), even though I bedded them in meticulously and performed proper warm up and cool down procedures during track days. I spent a few months researching what brake upgrades there are for the Mk5 R32 and after speaking to Ed Jackson at APS extensively, pretty much the only 2 companies worth looking at for a front Big Brake Kit are Brembo and AP Racing. AP Racing was later discounted as they didn't have a kit for the Mk5 R32 or 8P S3. Another problem with big brake kits is that they obviously cost a bomb, especially if you consider the cost of subsequent replacement discs and pads.

So I eventually approached AP Racing as they are a local British company and although they said they didn't have anything for my car, they directed me to a company called BG Developments http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk, which is an AP Racing agent and has been licenced by AP Racing to produce customized AP Racing products. They are a reputable brake company and have a long history in motorsport. After paying them a visit, the conclusion was that the OEM brake disc was of inferior design for it's size. Problems with the discs upon inspection were:

- vanes were not large enough

- the disc should have a separate bell for better thermal performance. Basically, a brake disc should be of a 2-piece design rather than a single piece, once you go beyond 330mm in disc diameter. This is to allow for better freedom for thermal expansion, heat dissipation and a degree of flexibility so that the disc can run true when clamped by the brake pads. To qoute what AP Racing said, "On many performance cars the typical standard disc will be a heavy duty ventilated single piece casting. Couple this type of rigid disc to a standard hub and wheel bearing and the result is any hub distortion / run out will transfer onto the disc brake faces. This eventually results in brake vibrations, usually picked up through the steering wheel."

- OEM disc are way too heavy. Each front disc weighs nearly 13kg.

So, on the basis that I was happy with the braking performance of the OEM setup, BG Developments and I decided that the best way to enhance longevity of the brake disc, was to custom make a 2-piece AP Racing brake disc to be used with OEM calipers and brake pads. I am still waiting for the discs to be completed and will most certainly report back my findings. Best of all is that the approximate cost of a pair of this brake disc is 600 pounds. Subsequent costs would be less as I would only need to change the disc and not the bell. Last but not least is the significant reduction of unsprung and rotational mass.

[stevie_d]

Awesome info guys!

I'll have a word with Ed at APS!

[S3 big andy]

Hi I have just joined TS and seen this post, I went for RS4 brakes and disks fitted by TTS Roadsport, fantastic looking and brakes like a bar steward!

[Jamiekip]

Hi Andy - welcome to tyresmoke!

PS - Show off!!!

[petsy]

I use ATE super blue brake fluid in my golf but after reading that cars with ABS should only use low viscosity brake fluid (the super blue isn't) I'm considering returning to using OEM fluid at my next brake service. Apparently the high viscosity fluid can damage the ABS modulator over time and that's an expensive part to replace.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I use ATE super blue brake fluid in my golf but after reading that cars with ABS should only use low viscosity brake fluid (the super blue isn't) I'm considering returning to using OEM fluid at my next brake service. Apparently the high viscosity fluid can damage the ABS modulator over time and that's an expensive part to replace.

Yup. I have to very strongly agree. It should be a low viscosity, specially rated for ESP systems.

And unless you are actually boiling your brake fluid, then there is absolutely no need to use any of these so called uprated brake fluids. For the vast majority, they are just snake oil. And the genuine VW fluid will actually out perform some of the 5.1 fluids!

And another point of caution, for model year 2008 and onwards, the ONLY permitted brake fluids in VAG cars (and vans ) are those which meet the VW 501.14 standard. Put any fluid in your system which isnt aproved, and your ESP modulator goes south, then bye bye warranty.

[Javi110]

Hi I have just joined TS and seen this post, I went for RS4 brakes and disks fitted by TTS Roadsport, fantastic looking and brakes like a bar steward!

S3 big andy, can you tell me more info to install de RS4 brakes??

Edited March 28, 2009 by Javi110