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Hamilton/McLaren Melbourne results excluded


techieboy
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Can't work out what's going on here.

McLaren would have quite understandably been jumpy about Hamilton having to pass Trulli under the safety car. Given the number of times that the rules have been "clarified" to exclude whatever Hamilton just did, I'm not at all surprised to find the team ordering him to give the place back and let them sort it out later. Having found to their cost that getting a view from Charlie Whiting or the stewards during the race is no protection against penalisation later, I can understand why they didn't wait to clarify the position. It's a symptom of a team that find themselves totally without confidence in the stewards, that feel that no matter what they do something is going to be held against them.

What I don't understand is the events that followed. Did McLaren or Hamilton tell the stewards that Trulli just jumped him? Why on earth would they do this? Why didn't they just tell the stewards "We were worried you'd penalise us, so we gave the place back, here's the telemetry to prove that Lewis let Trulli back in front, but we believe the place is rightfully ours."?

Under those circumstances, no-one would have been to blame for anything, and the stewards would just have had to decide who was third and who was fourth.

Seems like a basic error of judgment on the part of McLaren or Hamilton or both, and if things genuinely did play out as described, they were lucky to just get away with the loss of points from that race.

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So the drive through time penalty was overturned? Just like Hamilton's at Spa last season wasn't because time penalties apparently can't be appealed against?

Why wasn't he just demoted back down to 4th and Trulli back to 3rd? I see no problem with doing that.

I'm getting fed up with F1 now, i've been an avid follower for years, but at the moment it seems every other race is being decided by the stewards. It makes the sport look incredibly stupid.

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Can't work out what's going on here.

McLaren would have quite understandably been jumpy about Hamilton having to pass Trulli under the safety car. Given the number of times that the rules have been "clarified" to exclude whatever Hamilton just did, I'm not at all surprised to find the team ordering him to give the place back and let them sort it out later. Having found to their cost that getting a view from Charlie Whiting or the stewards during the race is no protection against penalisation later, I can understand why they didn't wait to clarify the position. It's a symptom of a team that find themselves totally without confidence in the stewards, that feel that no matter what they do something is going to be held against them.

What I don't understand is the events that followed. Did McLaren or Hamilton tell the stewards that Trulli just jumped him? Why on earth would they do this? Why didn't they just tell the stewards "We were worried you'd penalise us, so we gave the place back, here's the telemetry to prove that Lewis let Trulli back in front, but we believe the place is rightfully ours."?

Under those circumstances, no-one would have been to blame for anything, and the stewards would just have had to decide who was third and who was fourth.

Seems like a basic error of judgment on the part of McLaren or Hamilton or both, and if things genuinely did play out as described, they were lucky to just get away with the loss of points from that race.

Yup agreed Teacake - Very sneaky to let Toyota carry the can on that one if the details we are told are correct, must have been an enquiry at the end of the race where MC "forgot" to mention that they had effectively let Trulli pass so he was not guilty of "overtaking" under the safety car.

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So the drive through time penalty was overturned? Just like Hamilton's at Spa last season wasn't because time penalties apparently can't be appealed against?

Why wasn't he just demoted back down to 4th and Trulli back to 3rd? I see no problem with doing that.

I'm getting fed up with F1 now, i've been an avid follower for years, but at the moment it seems every other race is being decided by the stewards. It makes the sport look incredibly stupid.

It's a complex sport Tom which needs a strong hand to control it and in this case I feel that again MC have got off lightly for being less than forthcoming with the truth ala Ferrari dossier gate!!

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Whole new picture for constructors' and drivers' standings now.

Toyota looking great all of a sudden.

Brawn's Constructors' lead reduced from 12 points to 7.

01 Brawn-Mercedes 18

02 Toyota 11

03 Renault 4

04 Williams-Toyota 3

05 STR-Ferrari 3

06 Force India-Mercedes 0

07 BMW Sauber 0

08 RBR-Renault 0

09 Ferrari 0

10 McLaren-Mercedes 0

01 Jenson Button 10

02 Rubens Barrichello 8

03 Jarno Trulli 6

04 Timo Glock 5

05 Fernando Alonso 4

06 Nico Rosberg 3

07 Sebastien Buemi 2

08 Sebastien Bourdais 1

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What a joke, why can't they just put them back to 3rd and 4th. Perhaps there is something in the car-pit radio that they haven't told us yet....and if Hamilton had done what Rubens did in the first corner, I'm 100% sure he would have been penalised!!

I really can't be bothered watching it now, with the new commentator talking in that monotone horse race commentary voice!.....roll on MotoGP!!

Edited by Dr_Watson
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Listen to the audio - BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Hamilton not to blame - McLaren chief

Sounds like careful words to me, avoids the direct questions, he seems to elude that he feels that the FIA should have been known about the conversation between MC and LH and they should not have to offer that information!!! Sure mate when you are happy to see Trulli penalised. Serves them right.

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BBC commentator and former F1 driver Martin Brundle said: "This does not look good for Hamilton or McLaren.

"Hamilton passed Trulli as he was off the road. Hamilton clearly wondered then, to give him the benefit of the doubt, if he had passed under the safety car conditions and was trying to let Trulli back through.

"There was a point when he was doing just 15mph in his McLaren and Trulli had no option but to repass him.

"I think Lewis then saw half a chance of a third place instead of a fourth, went up to the stewards and didn't give them the full story.

"Now they've matched up his comments (to them) to radio content between him and the team, and other information they've gathered, and they've decided that effectively he was telling fibs.

"I think it's a big issue and it's not going to go away. If they were asked a direct question they should have given the right answer, and they clearly didn't."

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BBC commentator and former F1 driver Martin Brundle said: "This does not look good for Hamilton or McLaren.

"Hamilton passed Trulli as he was off the road. Hamilton clearly wondered then, to give him the benefit of the doubt, if he had passed under the safety car conditions and was trying to let Trulli back through.

"There was a point when he was doing just 15mph in his McLaren and Trulli had no option but to repass him.

"I think Lewis then saw half a chance of a third place instead of a fourth, went up to the stewards and didn't give them the full story.

"Now they've matched up his comments (to them) to radio content between him and the team, and other information they've gathered, and they've decided that effectively he was telling fibs.

"I think it's a big issue and it's not going to go away. If they were asked a direct question they should have given the right answer, and they clearly didn't."

Yup and it's not the first time MC have been in full facts / truth mode eh?? remember the whole Alonso blowing the lid on if they knew where the tech info came from emails!!! Oh sorry we forgot about those when you asked us did we have any EVIDENCE to submit!!!! Oh silly us...........

So please folks stop bleating on about FIA / MC unfairness and look at why MC are prone to this ????

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Yup and it's not the first time MC have been in full facts / truth mode eh?? remember the whole Alonso blowing the lid on if they knew where the tech info came from emails!!! Oh sorry we forgot about those when you asked us did we have any EVIDENCE to submit!!!! Oh silly us...........

So please folks stop bleating on about FIA / MC unfairness and look at why MC are prone to this ????

No, I don't think McLaren went into this deliberately attempting to cheat, and they'd have been damn stupid to have tried to cheat over something that could be proven on a recording. I suspect it was a misunderstanding: McLaren trying to tell the FIA that they'd given up the place but felt it was theirs, and the FIA hearing it as "Sir! Sir! Toyota cheated, sir!"

While you're bringing up the unfairness and cheating thing from 2007 again, just remember that Renault were found to have far more of McLaren's secret documents than McLaren had of Ferrari's, it was on their main computer system where potentially all their employees could see it rather than just held by a few individuals, and their team boss did not contact the FIA to report it when he found out. Renault's penalty: nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

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