My near death motorway experience

[burble]

But remember, its not your car that has let you down, it's a technician.

You have obviously put alot of time and effort into it so try not to let it taint your opinion of a great car, easy said I know:

That's what I keep telling myself. I love the car but I really don't know how I'd feel about getting behind the wheel of it again.

I'm sure if I had an independent check done I'd be happier. Speaking of which I'm going to pop over and see Ed @ APS and see if they'll help me out there.

[SINGH]

Sorry to hear about this, I'm glad your okay, the consequence could have been dire. Defiantly the technician that was at fault and hope he gets what he deserves. If you do decide to buy another car, the 135I is what I would go for. Good Luck getting it sorted

[scooby_simon]

I've just spoken to VW and made the complaint which they're going to investigate.

One thing came up during the call that surprises me - VW can't see any service history for my car, as far as they can tell it hasn't been into a dealer since it was PDI'd in November 2007! I did wonder if that was because they had the car logged with the original registration plate (I put a private plate on in January 2008) but no, neither registration plates are showing any service history.

I'm off back to the dealer now.

It might be a good idea to fax/email over your receipts and service book to VW HQ.

[burble]

I'm just back from a chat with Ed and Nathan at APS. They're both completely dumbfounded that his can happen.

What Nathan told me is that the Haldex oil and diff oil are different things. The haldex oil is meant to be changed every 40k and its there more for cooling the haldex system rather than lubrication. The diff oil is only changed if the diff develops a leak.

So it seems that the diff oil was drained, not the haldex oil. The diff holds about 2.5l, the halex coupling about 1l so it doesn't even look like the technician put the haldex oil in the diff - there was nowhere near a litre in there.

Nathan says that on top of the new diff and haldex assembly I should be pushing for the donut bushes on the propshaft to be changed and for the cuplings on the prop shaft to be throughly checked.

When it's all fixed I'll take the car to APS and Ed has said that they'll give it a check over if I cross their palms with a few cans of lager.

Also the service manager finally called me back. I explained what happened and one part of the conversation went like this:

Me: You'll have to look at it from my point of view, the car goes in for a service and a couple of days later that part fails. I'm sure you can understand why I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

Him: Oh yeah, I understand completely, I'm also putting 2 and 2 together. It does sound like something we've caused.

Does that sound like an admission of guilt? Now bearing in mind that the car hasn't even been delivered there yet I'm assuming that he's spoken to the technician in question who has remembered what he did.

Edited May 17, 2010 by burble

[garcon magnifique]

Shame you didn't record that.

At least it seems the service manager is willing to consider the possibility it's their screw up - of course that doesn't mean he won't try and wriggle out of it later... I suspect he's sussed that you are not a mug.

[stooH]

Doesn't necessarily sound like an admission of guilt more a frank exchange with him thinking "I know exactly what cnut did this and this will be the thing that I finally nail him with"

[burble]

They just called again to say that my car has arrived and will be going on the ramp in about half an hour.

[theduisbergkid]

Bloody hell, what a saga !

Did you get the AA report in writing ? Might come in handy (independent witness if it gets legal).

Don't blame the spanner-monkey, his work should have been checked by someone else, and they should all have received the right training in the first place. What you have is a systematic breakdown of any quality control that could have resulted in a fatality.

On a personal note, I'd want rid of the car, full market price, and pronto. What else might they have f*cked up when 'servicing' your car ? If VW won't play ball, a call to trading standards, VW HQ and the motoring press and websites like TsN etc will quickly bring them to their senses.

Good luck in sorting it

[stooH]

Don't blame the spanner-monkey, his work should have been checked by someone else, and they should all have received the right training in the first place. What you have is a systematic breakdown of any quality control that could have resulted in a fatality.

You say don't blame the spanner monkey but we don't know what occurred in the first instance, it's entirely possible he just ticked the box and didn't bother doing the work, even with QC you can't check every single part of the process it would cost too much money (although they probably charge enough).

[theduisbergkid]

You say don't blame the spanner monkey but we don't know what occurred in the first instance, it's entirely possible he just ticked the box and didn't bother doing the work, even with QC you can't check every single part of the process it would cost too much money (although they probably charge enough).

I hear you Stoo, my thinking is that if he made a mistake, he probably wasn't trained/supervised properly in the first place.

Anyhoo, main dealers simply have no excuse for this, let's see how Burble gets on...

[stooH]

indeed

[mb]

What a horrible experience glad you are OK as said could have been a lot worse ! Glad it sounds like you are getting somewhere with VW - it is not the car's fault that it had its oil removed so I agree with the others who say don't replace the car just yet. I would particularly bear this in mind when speaking with VW - start by getting them to admit guilt & replace the tranny, then the other bits then decide if you want to push for more.

Whilst it is good to show you aren't a fool if you demand too much initially they might refuse rather than start down a path that is better for you in the long run.

Good luck whatever you decide !

[burble]

Yep, I have the report in writing. They have a copy of it and I have the original here, plus a PDF version on my phone just incase anyone else needs a copy of it.

So I was told I'd get a call by 5 with an update, but didn't. About 6:45 my phone beeped to tell me I had a voicemail, seems O2 are being sh1te again. Anyway, the service manager told me they had ordered a full replacement diff and final rear drive system which should be delivered tomorrow. They're going to strip the knackered one down to see if it was a manufacturing fault or their workmanship.

I'm really contorted when it comes to the car. My sensible side says to get rid of it but I really, really like the car. I know they're heavy on fuel, not as fast as they should be and so on but I love the car.

[blackjack]

Good to hear you are ok, as one of the other posters says you need to go right to the top of VW UK on this one, don't trust the dealers.

Never mind a free repair, I'd ask for the car to be brought back from you there is no way it will be as good as it was before this accident.

Good luck.

[burble]

I've got a case open with VW and should apparently be getting a call from them tomorrow.

[Andrew]

I'm surprised at the concern over the car once it is fixed. Surely once it is fixed it then runs the same as any other with similar risks. It is not a nice thing to have happen but I'd not let it dissuade you from keeping the car. Aside from anything else, they won't offer you back the value you feel it is worth with your mods.

[burble]

My concern is that if they are incompetent enough to feck my car in the first place, how do I know that they're competent enough to fix it properly?

[blackjack]

I've got a case open with VW and should apparently be getting a call from them tomorrow.

Good man, also make sure that everything is put down in writing by them so there can be no dispute about what has been said.

Push for a replacement car, I've found to my cost in the past that a car that's had an accident of this nature will not be the same again, there will be niggles that are seemingly unrelated to the faliure. You won't feel comfortable driving the thing again either.

[Mr Man]

Well....this thread has moved on a bit since last night.....Understandably your a bit miffed at the moment but I`d play the polite but resolute customer for the time being.....I personally would`t be demanding or even hinting that you`d like to see the guy who serviced the car sacked......because it is still to ascertained why there was no oil in the diff......and more importantly why the oil level was`t checked....I know the haldex oil should have been replaced at the 40k service....but what about checking the diff oil.

You hinted from your conversation with APS that the diff is sealed and the oil is never changed......if this is the case, then surely the oil level should at least be checked at major services....but is this oil level check on the service schedule?....if it`s not, then you can hardly blame the mechanic.....although I have a Land Rover defender and I know for a fact they check the oil levels.

If it turns out that the diff is a sealed for life unit then your looking at a major component failure....and I would assume the matter would be taken up by Volkswagen UK...or at least a report sent to them as this would be deemed to be a major safety issue.....if however some numbty drained the diff oil but did`t replace it.....or just ticked the oil checked box then that`s a completely different matter

Anyway it appears the dealership is taking this seriously and your not been given the cold shoulder....so on that count you have to give them some credit.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Mr Man

[burble]

I'm being very polite when talking to them but I'm being assertive and firm along with it. i want them to be 100% aware that I'm not a push over and won't take any crap from them.

No, the diff isn't sealed, there is a drain plug at the bottom of the sump plus a couple of level plugs. I don't know if a service entails a fluid check on the diff, I guess a service would include just a visual check and any leaks should be apparent from that.

I can, and do blame the mechanic as I firmly believe that the diff oil was drained in error.

Yeah, the dealership are taking it seriously but I'm not giving them any credit for doing it. They've damned lucky I'm not dead and I'm expecting them to bend over backwards to get things sorted. it's fair to say they're moving things along but they're not as attentive as I would expect them to be. For instance I shouldn't have to chase them for information,

[Tipex]

Never mind a free repair, I'd ask for the car to be brought back from you there is no way it will be as good as it was before this accident.

What utter, utter rubbish.

How will the car not be as good? if anything, it'll be better as it'll have a new diff/haldex/couplings/doughnuts etc etc, meaning they are unlikely to need attention again.

I think everyone needs to calm down here a bit, everyones baiting for blood, when in reality, someones just made a mistake, thats all.

Ok, so the consequences could have been very serious, but they weren't, everyone survived and the only damage is to a piece of metal which can be fixed.

There's not a person alive who can say they've never made a mistake at work, things like that happen, you just don't know the circumstances around why it happened, there could be a thousand reasons, all of which are largely irrelevant granted, but all the time you have humans invloved, mistakes will be made.

It's the measure of how the situation is resolved that matters, and from the sounds of it, the dealers are doing everything right, and quickly too, what's the point going in all guns blazing demanding this and that, when they are doing everything as they should already? all you will do is get peoples backs up, remember they are human, and once you've done that, your fecked!

[burble]

someones just made a mistake, thats all.

It's obviously easy to be pragmatic when you're not the one affected.

There's not a person alive who can say they've never made a mistake at work, things like that happen, you just don't know the circumstances around why it happened, there could be a thousand reasons, all of which are largely irrelevant granted, but all the time you have humans invloved, mistakes will be made.

Absolutely but when I make a mistake at work I have to deal with the consequences. Plus the difference is that if I make a mistake at work it doesn't put someones life at risk.

[blackjack]

How will the car not be as good? if anything, it'll be better as it'll have a new diff/haldex/couplings/doughnuts etc etc, meaning they are unlikely to need attention again.

If you've ever got a car back that's been fixed after a serious accident then you'll know it's not the same. The broken bits might be repaired but often the likes of the vibrations or impact will have played havoc with other bits of the car.

As for getting someone fired, it's not worth the trouble just take your money elsewhere and advise your mates to do the same.

[Tipex]

It's obviously easy to be pragmatic when you're not the one affected.

Absolutely but when I make a mistake at work I have to deal with the consequences. Plus the difference is that if I make a mistake at work it doesn't put someones life at risk.

But they are dealing with the consequences, and as yet, you don't actually know it was someones fault, it's all speculation.

It is easy to be pragmatic when not involved yes, and I fully understand why your not happy and upset, but you need to take a step back and look at it with a clear mind, your not dead, your cars broken, they are fixing it.

The time to start getting rattled is when/if they try and wriggle out of it.

Personally, I'm not 100% convinced it is due to low oil level, there would have been a lot of whining from the diff before it let go, you would have been fully aware there was a problem, my money is on either a manufacturing defect, or just a sudden failure (these things do happen).

You mentioned your arguing with them over the service interval for the Haldex unit, and the subsequent changing of the Haldex oil, but what makes you think they even touched the diff if it was only booked in for the Haldex oil to be changed? surely they know the difference between a haldex unit and a diff?

[Tipex]

If you've ever got a car back that's been fixed after a serious accident then you'll know it's not the same. The broken bits might be repaired but often the likes of the vibrations or impact will have played havoc with other bits of the car.

As for getting someone fired, it's not worth the trouble just take your money elsewhere and advise your mates to do the same.

Had the car been in a crash, I'd agree with you 100%, I'd never have an accident damaged/repaired car.

But there was no crash, a mechanical part has failed, and can be replaced, you wouldn't change your car if any other parts failed and were replaced, this is no different, it's just a diff.