So who will be the first to have an electric car

[CarMad]

... and I mean full electric not a hybrid.

Here is the list for you to choose from.

• Mitsubishi i-MiEV: Jan 2011
  
• Smart fortwo electric drive: Jan 2011
  
• Peugeot iOn: Jan 2011
  
• Nissan Leaf: March 2011
  
• Tata Vista: March 2011
  
• Citroen CZero: Early 2011
  
• Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid: Early 2012
  
• Chevrolet Volt: Early 2012
  
• Vauxhall Ampera: Early 2012
  

BBC News - Nine electric cars will be eligible for subsidies

[cruiser647]

Not a chance in hell.

They won't do for a 60 mile one-way commute in traffic, which with crappy weather, with heaters on, wipers on, lights on, music on can occasionally take 2 - 2.5 hours instead of the normal 1.

Besides, many work places and car parks will need charging plugs. And who will pay for the electric in public car parks?

For town use - easier.... but I still wouldn't want one.

Luddite? Me?

[Tipex]

The infrastructure for electric only cars will never exist, say for example I wanted to go shopping at lakeside, it's about 80 miles each way, so I get to lakeside, and look for the token few electric car spaces with charge points, and someones already in them, i'm fecked.

And that's assuming the charge point uses the correct electrical plug for my chosen vehicle anyway.

Electric cars just won't take off, the future of low/zero emission vehicle technology lies elsewhere.

[theduisbergkid]

Anyone read the Times at the weekend ? See how many full EVs were sold in the UK last year ? Just the 55. Read the CZero review ? Pretty damning and confirmation of what we all suspected. They don't work and are not financially viable. I resent my tax money being used to subsidise these bloody things too.

Another thing - they're always 'coming soon' but never actually reach the showrooms. I have a 10 year old copy of TG in my bog at home with a bit by Merc claiming an electric A class was 2 years off the showrooms, never happened, and the EV Smart thats on the list above ? That was finished, tested and ready for production 5 years ago. The reason it isn't in the showrooms ? It isn't financially viable and there isn't sufficient demand to justify production. Fu cking nonsense, all of it.

Sorry, pet topic of mine, rant off.

[NeilB]

Electric cars just won't take off, the future of low/zero emission vehicle technology lies elsewhere.

For me the future lies with the Honda FCX Clarity, due to the way you can fill it up and go like we currently do.

[cruiser647]

For me the future lies with the Honda FCX Clarity, due to the way you can fill it up and go like we currently do.

Yep!

Spot on. Why don't more manufacturers latch onto this?

[NeilB]

Sadly the infrastructure isn't there yet to support such a car yet, with only a handful of filling stations over the world at the moment.

Doing the electric car with lots of Duracells crammed into it is the easiest and cheapest way at the moment for car makers, looking green and doing it on the cheap at the same time.

[NewNiceMrMe]

I might buy one. You never know.

[cruiser647]

Electric car sub section for MrMe.

[m4ttm4son]

I'd have a Tesla if they were for sale at ~£5k.

[CarMad]

For me the future lies with the Honda FCX Clarity, due to the way you can fill it up and go like we currently do.

Apparently many manufactures have cancelled much of their developyment on Hydrogen unfortunately due to the issues of getting the infrastructure in place.

I'd consider the Ampera which does at least have an engine to get you a good distance if needed, but it could be used for my daily commute and the other car in the family can be used for long distance driving.

[steelwind101]

I think the Ampera being discussed is a battery only model in there test.

[NewNiceMrMe]

I would seriously look at an electric car when they get it right.

Our Hybrid Lexus has been imperious. It doesn't give the 32mpg that Lexus claim, but we get 29 mpg from a 3.3 litre V6 putting out a lot of power with a 0-62 mph time of 7.2s - and I think that's reasonably good.

More to the point, it is ultra-quiet, ultra smooth, has been flawless for the duration of ownership and we'll be a little sorry to see it go. But not too sorry when she feels the right pedal of the replacement I suspect.

[Tipex]

29mpg from a V6 ain't great, particularly one that's meant to be an Eco hybrid, it just proves to me, that hybrid technology isn't the answer either.

Christ, my old V6 Alfa I bought for the Scumball rally did 25mpg, and that was nearly 20 years old.

Personally I think big leaps forward in existing petrol/diesel technology are the only answer, as creating the infrastructure for almost anything else is a mind boggling excersise.

Unless someone thinks of a fuel that can use existing pumps.

[NewNiceMrMe]

I'd disagree. With a good amount of urban driving I think 29 mpg from a 3.3 V6 is good - especially, as I said, with the power the car delivers.

However, hybrids aren't just all about economy. It had nothing to do with why we bought it. We bought it because it was easily the most comfortable car on the road and astonishingly quiet. In terms of build and specification it was far superior to anything offered by BMW, Mercedes and Audi - and still is in all honesty. The paintwork on the X5 won't be as good as on the Lexus and I won't be surprised with a few trips to the dealers either. However, it was time for a change and something altogether different.

Furthermore, the RX was bought because it's virtually anonymous. She could pull up outside clients with no issues in it. Now that doesn't really matter as much, hence the X5. If Lexus sold a high end big engined 4x4-type beast with 400 bhp on tap, we'd have been there to look at it.

Most people presume everyone buys a hybrid for economy, and indeed I'm sure most do, but that wasn't the case with us. It was the build quality, spec, comfort, silence and anonymity that fitted the bill perfectly back then. It has done 54,000 miles in 3 years and 3 months - all with nothing more than servicing trips to the dealers. Lastly - the dealers have been quite incredible. BMW dealers could learn a huge amount from Lexus in respect of customer service standards.

Edited December 15, 2010 by MrMe

[Tipex]

Can't agree I'm afraid, it just goes to show how little progress has been made in terms of economy on petrol engines, if it can only muster an extra 4mpg over a 20 yr old 3.0 V6 (which wasn't exactly the pinnacle of engineering technology) then I'd say it's been a complete waste of time, get rid of all the weight from the hybrid tech, and it'd probably actually get better mpg.

I do agree with you in general about the car though, a mates dad is on his second now, the first being passed onto his wife at around 350k miles with NO faults whatsoever, and still driving like the day it left the showroom.

The looks are subjective, not to my taste personally but each to their own, the big let down is the interior for me, ok so the quality isn't at issue, but it's just not a nice place to be, way to many buttons, to much plastic, no style whatsoever, and various displays all using different fonts.

If you're just after a workhorse, and don't care about the style or interior, then they are great, but I wouldn't want one personally, although I wouldn't object to the mrs getting one.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Tipex

[cruiser647]

Part of the infrastructure for hydrogen is already there for the fuel celled car. The technology is nearly there - LPG pumps at petrol stations are available already, a revamp of them would provide a suitable dispensing agent

.

By using service stations and oil companies to provide more of the infrastructure for hydrogen supply, then government (tax) won't have to spend £mils on building power charging points.

[CarMad]

Can't agree I'm afraid, it just goes to show how little progress has been made in terms of economy on petrol engines, if it can only muster an extra 4mpg over a 20 yr old 3.0 V6 (which wasn't exactly the pinnacle of engineering technology) then I'd say it's been a complete waste of time, get rid of all the weight from the hybrid tech, and it'd probably actually get better mpg.

I do agree with you in general about the car though, a mates dad is on his second now, the first being passed onto his wife at around 350k miles with NO faults whatsoever, and still driving like the day it left the showroom.

The looks are subjective, not to my taste personally but each to their own, the big let down is the interior for me, ok so the quality isn't at issue, but it's just not a nice place to be, way to many buttons, to much plastic, no style whatsoever, and various displays all using different fonts.

If you're just after a workhorse, and don't care about the style or interior, then they are great, but I wouldn't want one personally, although I wouldn't object to the mrs getting one.

I disagree, you can't compare a small Alfa with a V6 with a large 4x4 thats huge inside and has more kit and toys than Alfa know exist; the weight and size of the two just aren't comparable. A GS450, maybe if they did a smaller hybrid then yes, oh hold on they do and its a Prius or a Lexus CT200h and they do 60mpg+.

[Tipex]

I disagree, you can't compare a small Alfa with a V6 with a large 4x4 thats huge inside and has more kit and toys than Alfa know exist; the weight and size of the two just aren't comparable. A GS450, maybe if they did a smaller hybrid then yes, oh hold on they do and its a Prius or a Lexus CT200h and they do 60mpg+.

It wasn't a small Alfa, it was a 4 door family saloon car, with all the tech available at the time, your forgetting that it's 20 years old, aside from airbags, navigation and esp, it pretty much had everything that a modern car has and is considerably larger than a Prius, plus has some performance, and not a tiny 4 pot engine.

The Lexus isn't a large 4x4, in fact for a 4x4 it's actually very compact, the point is the comparison between mpg from 2 V6 engines that have been produced 20 years apart, and the fact the hyrbid gets barely any better economy despite so called advances in technology, and the fact it's a hybrid makes it's lack of economy frankly laughable.

If you think you can get 60mpg out of a Prius in the real world, your also living in cloud cuckoo land, I don't care what anyone says, or what the computer says, (someone is bound to come on and say they get a million mpg) the best you can hope for is mid 40's, and we have 3 of them, so I do know.

[NewNiceMrMe]

The Lexus isn't a large 4x4, in fact for a 4x4 it's actually very compact

Is an X5 a large 4x4?

Or a Q7?

I'm guessing you'll say yes - in which case you haven't a clue what you are talking about and should shut up.

The RX400h SE-L is in direct competition with the Q7 and X5 and both Audi and BMW salesmen have little books telling them how to sell against their competition and the RX400 is in the book in the same sector.

It is very much the same size inside. See the thing is, I know because we own one and we compared it with an X5 and Q7 as many on here know from when we bought it. Your statement is completely lacking in any fact whatsoever.

[Tipex]

Is an X5 a large 4x4?

Or a Q7?

I'm guessing you'll say yes - in which case you haven't a clue what you are talking about and should shut up.

The RX400h SE-L is in direct competition with the Q7 and X5 and both Audi and BMW salesmen have little books telling them how to sell against their competition and the RX400 is in the book in the same sector.

It is very much the same size inside. See the thing is, I know because we own one and we compared it with an X5 and Q7 as many on here know from when we bought it. Your statement is completely lacking in any fact whatsoever.

Unfortunately for you, I'm not going to shut up, you saying somethings a fact, doesn't make it so, I'm not sure exactly who, or what you think you are sometimes?

In my opinion the RX is smaller than both the cars you mentioned, it might be just as spacious inside, but externally, it's smaller, you've only got to look at the thing to know that.

[RedRobin]

I don't care how fast, how economical, or how cheap they'll become.... I'll never have one. And I don't like the hybrids so far either. I'm hoping that by the time petrol cars become extinct I'll be too old to drive [opportunity for someone like Mook to say I'm already too old to drive ]

[Chav]

I'd disagree. With a good amount of urban driving I think 29 mpg from a 3.3 V6 is good - especially, as I said, with the power the car delivers.

However, hybrids aren't just all about economy. It had nothing to do with why we bought it. We bought it because it was easily the most comfortable car on the road and astonishingly quiet. In terms of build and specification it was far superior to anything offered by BMW, Mercedes and Audi - and still is in all honesty. The paintwork on the X5 won't be as good as on the Lexus and I won't be surprised with a few trips to the dealers either. However, it was time for a change and something altogether different.

Furthermore, the RX was bought because it's virtually anonymous. She could pull up outside clients with no issues in it. Now that doesn't really matter as much, hence the X5. If Lexus sold a high end big engined 4x4-type beast with 400 bhp on tap, we'd have been there to look at it.

Most people presume everyone buys a hybrid for economy, and indeed I'm sure most do, but that wasn't the case with us. It was the build quality, spec, comfort, silence and anonymity that fitted the bill perfectly back then. It has done 54,000 miles in 3 years and 3 months - all with nothing more than servicing trips to the dealers. Lastly - the dealers have been quite incredible. BMW dealers could learn a huge amount from Lexus in respect of customer service standards.

Feck me, its alan sodding partridge.

[NewNiceMrMe]

In my opinion the RX is smaller than both the cars you mentioned, it might be just as spacious inside, but externally, it's smaller, you've only got to look at the thing to know that.

Feck me, I must own a Tardis. It's not 'just as spacious' inside - it is more spacious inside. Look up the facts, instead of just 'opinion' as you said.

Externally, yes it is slightly smaller, but that's not what you said. You said it wasn't a large 4x4. It is a large 4x4.

You clearly know much more than BMW or Audi though.

I'll write to them and tell them they're got it all wrong and that the RX400 (now 450) doesn't belong in the same sector and the X5 and Q7. They've had it wrong for years (their 'opinion', obviously). When they ask why, I'll tell them 'Cos Titex said so'. No, it wasn't a typo by the way.

[Tipex]

So cutting, not sure I'll get over that one