cruiser647 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Japan pushes hydrogen infrastructure - Autocar.co.uk That's more like it. Encourage the use of a proper fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDYDUBS Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Yea good plan so far.................something else the taxman can take us for Edited January 21, 2011 by Mook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Yea good plan so far.................something else the taxman can take us for True. However, I meant it in a 'Hydrogen, is better than EV battery power' kind of way. I can't see the point of EV's with their poxy range, heavy weight, poor charging set up and expense/disruption of having to build an infrastructure from scratch. (so far) Edited January 21, 2011 by Mook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 EVs Joe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 My problem with hydrogen power is how we get it. It's still a pretty damn emission heavy way to move a vehicle if it is used on a large scale. The future is PHEV, and then EV (IMO), producing the power from a combination of renewables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Can you lot stop with the acronyms and explain what they stand for please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 EV - electric vehicle PHEV - plug-in Hybrid electric vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 OK, so EV implies it's fully electric? And plug-in implies it's like a Prius you plug in at the end of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 yep. Electric Vehicle = Nissan Leaf - all battery, all of the time. PHEV = Plug in Prius. OOh, I forgot to mention EREV - Extended range electric vehicle - e.g chevy volt/opel ampera. The ampera will be a car I would love to own, and it is, imo a watershed, taking the advantages of a PHEV, but using electric drive all the time, rather than 2 drive trains like a conventional hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 So how does an EREV work? Plug it in, charge it, drive it. But when it runs out of power? Personally I just don't see how plug-in only cars will ever work commercially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 EREV has a petrol engine same as a hybrid, but it's not connected to the wheels, so after 40 or so miles (volt) the small engine cuts in and acts as a generator to charge the batteries. removes the range anxiety of not being able to run over the battery range by giving you over 300 miles of petrol range, and you can extend that further by filling up the fuel tank, but you don't have the added weight etc of having both an electric and petrol drivetrain connected to the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 So it's an electric car with a generator. Interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 yep, more or less. All the benefits of an EV, none of the drawbacks. You will see them this year in the US, probably next year over here as the ampera, though scheduled for late 2011. Great car, great concept, and the ideal solution until EV technology and infrastructure is suitable for mass market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Benefits? EV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 zero on-road emissions about 1/8th the fuel cost per-mile lower service costs maximum torque from start-up improved overall environmental impact. Christ, in theory if you set the ampera up right it can make you money from being sat in the garage (batteries charge at 2-5AM off peak power, discharge the next day at peak times, selling the power back to the grid for a profit, then it charges overnight again). its the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 And the power used to charge the thing from the grid? The precious materials used in the batteries' construction, the emissions in setting up the infrastructure.... Setting up a 'clean and viable' process for old batteries to be disposed of cleanly and not dumped in Africa/India somewhere - like lots of current IT stuff. Not all batteries will last the allotted mileage. Hydrogen - Existing infrastructure needs a a few tweaks to accomodate Hydrogen re-fuelling. No nasty emissions from exhausts making city centres cleaner, no need to 'educate' people with how to use 'ev' with training. Hydrogen is sometimes a by-product of various industrial processes. It's the most abundant element. Creating manufacturing facilities JUST for hydrogen creation will mean efficiencies will be found and the processes will improve. However, I know this argument will go on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Christ, in theory if you set the ampera up right it can make you money from being sat in the garage (batteries charge at 2-5AM off peak power, discharge the next day at peak times, selling the power back to the grid for a profit, then it charges overnight again). its the future. The charging/discharging process is not 100% efficient - you need to pump in far more power than you get back out, so the chances of making money on off-peak charging are pretty slim. Where there might be an opening for development is in renewable generation. All these wind turbines and tidal plants that people want to build generate electricity at inconvenient times, not when the power is actually needed. If you used your renewables to charge EVs, you'd perhaps put those power sources to good use. You could then, as malagus says, feed that power back into the grid at peak load times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hydrogen - Existing infrastructure needs a a few tweaks to accomodate Hydrogen re-fuelling. No nasty emissions from exhausts making city centres cleaner, no need to 'educate' people with how to use 'ev' with training. Hydrogen is sometimes a by-product of various industrial processes. It's the most abundant element. Creating manufacturing facilities JUST for hydrogen creation will mean efficiencies will be found and the processes will improve. Hydrogen is bloody difficult to store. Because the molecules are so small, they rapidly escape from pretty much any storage vessel you put them in. It would make sparking up in a multi-storey car park interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hydrogen is bloody difficult to store. Because the molecules are so small, they rapidly escape from pretty much any storage vessel you put them in. It would make sparking up in a multi-storey car park interesting... See, health benefits too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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