Riz Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I might have a test drive but for me its not just about the handling etc, its the whole package. Ive inspected the new Golf very closely, dont get me wrong its very solid but the interior surfaces are poor. Its hard to explain, they just dont seem as soft as the MK4`s. If i was to get the new GTi it would be for the following reasons. *better mpg *easier access for the rear in 5 door model *cheaper running costs *cheaper insurance *newer, warranty, road tax etc *common Mmmm i dont think ive missed anything... Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Only reason I comparing , is price plain and simple. My logic being that is someone is likely to pay £25k for a 200 bhp GTi with a poor internal quality and looks, which I think are poo. Then spending £20k on a 10k miles R32 might be a better option. If others agree with this logic, it follows that the R32 prices should hold up well. Yep, I know its not a 1:1 comparision and that Mk4 and Mk5 are different from the ground up, but since VW will not push the UK R34/ R36 in GB to 2007, it still looks good for residuals for R32 owners! I agree that few R32 owners will look at the 2005 GTi, if they did there is only two reasons:- MPG / Cost of ownership Tunning up the GTi to similar output as R32 Time to sell R32's is a good 18 months off and that's only if the new one is a real improvement on the existing R32. But by then it will be a near £30k car (has to be if a fully kitted GTi comes in at £25k) and as M3Me has said, just look at the alternatives for a £30k budget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I can't believe for a second any R32 owner would be able to live with the performance of the new GTi. The R32 is a much quicker car. [/ QUOTE ] I thought there wasn't much between them...? [ QUOTE ] Furthermore, I'd suggest that as many TSN-ers as possible (definitely Ari!) drive one of these cars. [/ QUOTE ] I would never waste anyones time by driving a car I'd no intention of buying. These guys are there to be in business and make money selling cars, not to give free joyrides to all and sundry. If I'm ever in the market then I'd testdrive one for sure, and its price competitors (if I could find any I thought I might like as much), but not just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 [ QUOTE ] with the performance of the new GTi. The R32 is a much quicker car I thought there wasn't much between them...? [/ QUOTE ] Well there felt like a big difference between them. This car (new Golf) weighs in at 1.3 tonnes remember. Maybe the more "insulated" ride of the GTi was misleading - but I don't think so. The R32 I had been in felt the much quicker car. [ QUOTE ] Furthermore, I'd suggest that as many TSN-ers as possible (definitely Ari!) drive one of these cars. I would never waste anyones time by driving a car I'd no intention of buying. These guys are there to be in business and make money selling cars, not to give free joyrides to all and sundry. If I'm ever in the market then I'd testdrive one for sure, and its price competitors (if I could find any I thought I might like as much), but not just for fun. [/ QUOTE ] Ermmm...hang on...where does it say "at a dealers..."? They'll become more widely noticeable on the roads and everyone is bound to come into contact with someone that owns one...if you believe what VW say about how many they have sold. However, yes the dealers are in the business of selling cars - but plenty of dealers will let you drive a car if you're already a customer with a different model (Audi such as yours for example) in goodwill. Then again, from my previous experience of Audi/VW dealers maybe their goodwill doesn't extend that far. I have been given a 645Ci for a day before though even though I told them I wouldn't be buying it. Perhaps it depends on the relationship you have with the dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Spec`s are as follows for the two variants:- Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Is that weight for the R32 correct!!!??? Thats the same, within a few, of an M3 Coupe!!!! Power to weight difference is a mere 7 bhp if its correct! If thats right, well I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Is that weight for the R32 correct!!!??? Thats the same, within a few, of an M3 Coupe!!!! Power to weight difference is a mere 7 bhp if its correct! If thats right, well I stand corrected. [/ QUOTE ] Yup its right 1512kg! Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 So about half a second to 60mph and seven mph difference in top speed (both being speeds I'd never reach anyway so largely arbitory). And the GTI is more modern inside and out, brand new not second-hand, more economical, I'm guessing cheaper to insure, comes with zero miles and a full warranty and I've owned it from new. Sorry, the used R32 would have to be usefully cheaper for me to purchase it over a brand new Golf GTI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I can only think of one suitable way of summarising. They're both crap. Buy an Audi or a BMW and end up with a proper car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Fine. Which Audi or BMW? The ones you mentioned earlier are not in the same league performance-wise, and if you argue that performance is not the issue for some people well those people can forget the GTI and buy a £15K Golf can't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Mmmmmm i would still take the R32! But like i said in my previous posts, they are two very different cars! Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Ari, it was tongue in cheek... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Yes, no, I know that. But everyone's telling me that the Golf GTI is overpriced, but no one has come up with a viable alternative for my mythical £20K that doesn't involve major sacrifice (ie another quality car without the performance like a BMW 320i, or a performance car without the quality like a Megane 225 or Civic R-Type, or a second-hand car). The joy of the Golf GTI is it is a quality performance hatch that ticks most of the boxes (image, performance, quality, practicality, usability etc) for sensible (not cheap, but sensible) outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 But that is a major point in it - it occupies a very odd slot in the marketplace. Do people really want to spend £22k-ish on what is a hot hatch? Or would they be tempted by something second hand or more executive like? I think a lot of people will lean to the alternatives at the cost of some of the performance. Ultimately, whilst you keep mentioning performance, a Civic Type-R will be with it every step of the way and the Honda's are built very well. I think you need to see inside one too, in the flesh, I did note that whilst the interior was very nice indeed....it isn't £20k+ worth I'm afraid. This isn't a Audi Ari. It shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 [ QUOTE ] But that is a major point in it - it occupies a very odd slot in the marketplace. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, a niche! Nothing like it. [ QUOTE ] Do people really want to spend £22k-ish on what is a hot hatch? Or would they be tempted by something second hand or more executive like? [/ QUOTE ] There will always be something second-hand that is "better value", I'd have a second-hand 3.0 cabrio instead of my 1.8T, someone else might have a second-hand 911 instead of a M3. Doesn't make the new 1.8T Cabrio or new M3 bad value. [ QUOTE ] I think a lot of people will lean to the alternatives at the cost of some of the performance. [/ QUOTE ] Of course they will, just as some people will have a 5 Series instead of an M3. But if you want performance and quiality then you'll have your M3 over a 5 Series, or the Golf GTI over a standard Audi A4 for example. [ QUOTE ] Ultimately, whilst you keep mentioning performance, a Civic Type-R will be with it every step of the way and the Honda's are built very well. [/ QUOTE ] But a Honda is not a German car. I've had a Honda, and whilst it was OK, it did not have that intrinsic "hewn from solid" feel of a German car. [ QUOTE ] I think you need to see inside one too, in the flesh, I did note that whilst the interior was very nice indeed....it isn't £20k+ worth I'm afraid. This isn't a Audi Ari. It shows. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are right, I need to see inside one. But I have read excellent things about the interior. I read somewhere that "Upon opening the door the build quality was immediately noticeable. This is one very finely put together car" Forget where I read that, any ideas...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Yes I did that about the build!!! But that was me trying to give it as much benefit of the doubt as I could when I think about it more. The more I have thought themore I have realised it is good build but not £20k or even close to it. I've had a Honda too, and I've had a Passat - the build of the Honda was better. Without doubt. Not by much, but undoubtedly better. We're never going to agree, lets face it, because I can't get away from this £20k MINIMUM price tag. Don't forget...it was a £25k car I drove!!!! Good god - thats Audi Cab money Ari! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Going to throw my two penith worth in. Is the Golf GTI work the money. NO. And here is why. Is it more powerful than its rivals. - Nope. Is it better looking or higher spec'ed - Nope. Does it handle better than its rivals - Nope. Its it a lot better built than its rivals for £2-3k - Nope. It is a good all round car but most certainly does not justify the extra outlay over the TypeR or Megane or even a Citroen C4 with has more equipment than most S class. If I had to put it against a rival it would have to be an Audi A3 Sportback. Which is probably better built, comes with Quattro or DSG for only slightly more money after a quick haggle with the dealer and handles equally as well as the Golf. Oh and come resale time I am willing to bet that the Audi dealer will give me more money for a new motor than the VW dealer will. Lets face it the Golf GTI is good, but its not £20k good IMO. We already pay too much for our cars, lets not give them more of a chance to rip us off more than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I would agree that the Audi A3 Sportback is the Golfs nearest competitor, but arguing that a 200hp German hatchback is too dear at £20K by using a more expensive 200hp German hatchback is hardly convincing. And are you seriously suggesting a Citreon C4 as a viable alternative? No one has yet suggested a car better deserving of my mythical £20K. Faster cars maybe, more luxurious cars, perhaps, but nothing that wraps it all up in one package like the Golf GTI, every car you want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Don't forget...it was a £25k car I drove!!!! Good god - thats Audi Cab money Ari! [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but a basic Audi Cabriolet. Add £5K worth of options to it and it'll be £5K dearer, just like your Golf was £5K dearer than the standard car. If you are prepared to live without leather, 18 inch wheels, etc on your Audi Cab then surely you'd be equally happy to live without them on the Golf? And I disagree about VW versus Honda build quality, unless things have changed a lot. My Honda had more toys for sure, but it wasn't as solid, it had way more road noise, less useful options and was just a cheaper feeling car. The Golf had depth. I drove a Civic recently (not a Type R, but it was a sporty version) and whilst it was a perfectly nice car it wasn't German feeling. Just things like for example the dash lighting and graphics were inferior. It had all the toys, but not the detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I must agree with Ari on the difference between the Type R and the Golf - there is a feeling when you're in Honda's that they just aren't quite there. Also, CarMad asked if it was "Is it better looking" that it's rivals. I have to say I think for a "hot hatch" it's much more modern and fresh looking than the rivals, all except the A3 mind. But everyones tastes are different. I know friends who won't touch a Golf because "they are as common as a Focus". But after getting in the new golf, they had their super-sillious smug grin wiped off their face as a corner is taken twice as fast as their car could manage, and it remains composed throughout the hair-raising manouver. Yes, an M3/Audi Cab is better, Yes it's over priced, but then quite honestly, so are many BMW's/Audi's. FFS, my Audi had rear electric windows as an option. £25k car that needs you to add a £330 option ? WTF??! The Golf GTi is aimed at young drivers from what my Dealer told me. The age group that doesn't want to be seen in an "old man's car" (not my choice of words), and I've had a fair number of people tell me my car is an old mans car. It's all about taste and markets and trying to pitch the GTi here is a waste of time. BMW drivers pitch themselves up much higher than VW drivers so you're not going to like the Golf really. It's all about what you're used to. Stop going on about the price - people pay way too much money on suits, meals, trips etc... it's all about what you want, and what you're willing to pay for. If someone is stupid enough to over look a BMW/Audi etc for a Golf GTi, then let them - perhaps they just like the younger look than our bigger cars, and have money to burn. I think the new GTi was a lovely car. Yes the plastics are noticably sub-standard over the last version, but it did shift, was composed, comfortable and turned heads when I had it. I wouldn't by one to replace my A4, but if my Wife doesn't want the A3 (I'll have serious words if this happens), she quite likes the Golf GTi. There, shoot me down M3Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Is that weight for the R32 correct!!!??? Thats the same, within a few, of an M3 Coupe!!!! Power to weight difference is a mere 7 bhp if its correct! If thats right, well I stand corrected. [/ QUOTE ] Yup its right 1512kg! Riz [/ QUOTE ] In that case, the UK got some seriously podgy cars. The official unladen weight for the Oz R32s is 1477kg (see PDF in attachment - lower part of page 3). NOTE: the 0-100km/h time of 6.6 seconds is measured here with two up & a full fuel load. (and my 500th post!) 334699-GolfR32_Specs.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Riz My V5 for a R32 3 door shows 1498 kg's unladen. Yours must have been drinking beer, known in China as liquid bread. Where and how has yours got the extra weight? Fat boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR32 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 This is odd - My V5 says 1487kg and my log book says 1477kg. I's the Rs main failing and makes it even more amazing that it handles so well and is so chuckable. Lots o cars go quickly but very few get that correct blend of meaty, direct steering, balance, and suspnsion/damper settings. My mk3 GTI 16V was way off but with the R I can pu it exactky where I want and it will "recover" from cornering very quickly and be set up for the next. To me, the R is a kind of mini exotic - The sound (NO ONE can fail to be impressed by it), the luxury spec, the solidity, the handling, the interior (esp the seats) the grip, the presence, the torque and the brakes are all a cut above the rest. A GTi, however composed and well resolved simply isn't the same kind of car even if it was faster (it's a fair way off). It's an expensive (and very good) hot hatch. The R is a mini sports tourer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR32 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 ...and I'm using a very old and knackered keyboard so apologies for the missed letters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 R32 tech supplement in the h'book does say 1477, so mine's been on a diet and Riz is looking even fatter! The R32 is a heavy car, but power, weight, steering, all blend very well. Your little discription is quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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