Great automotive triumphs of the modern era

[blackjack]

Fiats tie in with General Motors.

From a Fiat perspective this was great, they got a cash injection when they needed it and then a $2 billion cash when GM had to buy their way out of their agreement earlier this year injection when Fiat faced going to the wall. $2 billion should shore up the losses for a while and give Fiat ample funds to develop a couple of decent cars.

Overall, a great triumph for Fiat!

[malagus]

BMW selling rover off, but keeping all of the decent names bar MG. Lose £600m of debt, a loss making firm, and get to use some of the best names in the car industry, then sell them off too! (e.g new MINI, land rover.)

[Betaphile]

Sorry blackjack, but must disagree on this one.

It's worth remembering that GM has been screwing Fiat ever since the deal in 2000. This is merely Fiat's belated payback. Here are just a few of the more pointed examples:

a) GM taking Fiat's class-leading Multijet diesels for at least a couple of years before now - vital because diesels are crucial in Europe and GM has lagged in that area for, well, basically, ever - yet the first GM input into any Fiat Group cars will only be unveiled at Geneva in a couple of weeks' time;

b) The deal specifically precluded Fiat striking any new joint ventures with any other carmakers;

c) The lead time for new technologies was horrific, for example GM insisted on a seven-year gap from conception to execution of a new engine, an insane and grossly uncompetitive amount of time when PSA-Toyota went from clean sheet to production car with the new C1/107/Aygo in three-and-a-bit years; and

d) The belated technologies that Fiat did get from GM were held up still further as Fiat developed what they saw as (quote) 'inferior' products up to a satisfactory level.

The corporate inertia involved in every GM decision is colossal and while GM is by no means unique in this respect they are a good example of the breed. It was just a marriage made in hell from the off, you couldn't think of two companies more different. The deal severely hindered Fiat's ability to react and stifled creativity. So, as I said, call this deal Fiat's belated payback for all of the above...

Incidentally I reckon the banks have already taken most of the cash.

I'll grab my (car)coat...

[blackjack]

I bow to your knowledge of this one Betaphile.

[didsburychief]

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BMW selling rover off, but keeping all of the decent names bar MG. Lose £600m of debt, a loss making firm, and get to use some of the best names in the car industry, then sell them off too! (e.g new MINI, land rover.)

[/ QUOTE ]

BMW still own MINI, they haven't sold it off.

[malagus]

I know that! just not yet. If GM came along with a huge offer they would. the facts are that they have made a very marketable product, like the new range rover, and have learn't from their mistakes, and are holding onto it while it is profitable.

[Betaphile]

No probs blackjack, console yourself with the fact that you have a life.

Now, great automotive triumphs? You'd have to say that Japan's gradual but overwhelming conquest of the world of carmaking is pretty impressive. Their collective appearance might be almost bland enough to be uniform (certain Hondas and Mazdas excepted), but their grasp of the modern technique of manufacturing is awesome.

[carfiend]

Are we talking about engineering or marketing here? If its Marketing then the fact Ford sold so many Mk4 and Mk5 escorts despite the fact they are the crap cars that need to be burned in the deepest darkest depths of hell for all enternity would rank pretty high up there

[Agoogy]

Little German sports car manufacturer having (I think) the biggest profit margin of anyone else out there yet still making a car 40 years old, plus a few other sundry products which do ok. Whose image is rock solid whilst at the same time lending their names to kettles, SEATs, and Ladas

[saab]

[ QUOTE ]

You'd have to say that Japan's gradual but overwhelming conquest of the world of carmaking is pretty impressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely right. In the 1950s the Land Rover was basically the only four wheel drive vehicle available in Australia and consequently they more or less charged what they liked for them. In 1957 land Rover had 97% of 4x4 sales in Australia. In 1958 this had plummeted to 3%. What happened? The Toyota Landcrusier was introduced there. Quite a success story!

(I might have got the exact percentages slightly worng but they are more or less right).

[Blingpanzer]

The only reason the Land Cruiser didn't crucify Land Rover in the UK was its higher purchase price. Oh, and the fact that in the UK climate, it rotted with even more of a passion than Land Rover's chassis did. It was streets ahead of the Land Rover Series III in quality and engineering.

No sour grapes here - I own a Series III...it's much more characterful than a Land Cruiser could ever be, but that doesn't make it a superior product!

As for great moments in carmaking history: Land Rover replaces much-loved, more-than-adequate but dated SUV with 2.7-tonne complex monster, simultaneously moving the spare wheel from the rear door to underneath the rear floor. Way to get your affluent customers mucky when a tyre goes pear-shaped, Land Rover, and way to make it inaccessible when off-road. And 2.7 tonnes is just irresponsible; the beast needs some serious dieting. One wonders what the result of a collision between a Disco III and a supermini would be...