GTI manual vs. DSG test driven

[jcull]

I have been following this (excellent and informative) forum intently since I read the first reviews of the Mk V GTI and decided that it might be a car I'd like to get into when the lease expires on my current car. I have gotten a lot out of other peoples reviews of just about every facet of the car and thought I might be also able to contribute something useful now that I have some experience.

I have now driven both the manual and DSG GTI twice each, both times back to back. The first time I drove the manual first, the second time the DSG first. The first tme I took the cars out the sales rep came with me but was quite happy for me to drive, ahem, 'spiritedly'. The second time they left me to my own devices, so I drove them both even more spiritedly

I drove both up through the hills near my home town (which hosts a world class classic car rally on the same roads). The roads were mostly dry but it did rain the first time, albeit once I was back in town so it was irrelevant performance wise. The first drive was 1 hour in each, the second was 1 and a half hours in each.

Here are my opinions for what they are worth.

I really wanted to like the DSG from the outset and had pretty much made up my mind that this was the car to get after reading the reviews etc. about how good this gearbox is. I drove it the first time mainly in automatic mode, although I did use both the stick and the paddles in manual (and D at times as well). I was impressed by how quick it shifted and the speed of the car off the line. I loved the throttle blipping itself on the downshifts. The exhaust note also sounded better than in the manual in my opinion.

However, there were a few things I didn't like about the DSG after the first drive, in particular it shifted up too soon in fully automatic mode and held the gears too long in Sport mode. I found it hard to remember what gear I was in and even harder to read the display on the dash to find out. This would have been OK if it weren't for the fact that it was also hard to judge the engine note with the windows up or in noisy traffic to help decide whether/when to shift etc.

The second drive I used just the paddles exclusively, and found that the longer I drove it the more I liked it. However, it was still a little difficult to judge the engine note and figure out where/when to shift.

On the other hand, driving the manual I thought that the clutch and gearbox were both very sweet and could not fault either, even though it was a bit slower. Even though I liked the throttle blip in the DSG on downshifts, I liked it even better when I heel-toed and did it myself in the manual! The whole driving experience in the manual was a lot more involving and I found this to be more fun. It felt like I was a lot more in control of the car on the whole, rather than in the DSG which felt a bit like I was just telling the electronics what to do. They still did what I asked, but it felt as though they had a bit of say in the proceedings.

Even though I liked the DSG better the second time I drove it, I liked the manual even more than the first time I drove that! Since I still had niggling annoyances with the DSG but loved the manual, the choice for me is pretty clear. I found the manual to be much more fun. Am just getting quotes for the manual GTI now, in Reflex Silver.

I would easily say this is the most fun to drive car I have ever driven. Before I drove this I would have said the Porsche Boxster S, but man, this thing is FUN! I think I will probably get it chip tuned and upgrade the intake and exhaust so that it is around 175kW/320Nm. It feels like it would easily handle it. You cannot tell this is a front wheel drive turbo car, there is no torque steer or turbo lag.

Some other observations: one car had grey leather, one had the Interlagos cloth. I thought the cloth would be garish but I actually really liked it! I found it more comfortable and thought it worked well with most of the colour combinations.

One car also had sunroof, the other none. One had Sat Nav, the other none. I couldn't really see the benefits of any of the options given their prices, so I guess I will be ending up with what you would call the 'base model'!

I think that here in Australia the car is more highly specced than in Europe. What you get included (and also the build quality) in the base model makes this unbelievably good value! For AU$40K it is better appointed, better quality, faster and more fun than a lot of cars 50% more expensive.

Also, I am 6'6" and found I had plenty of room and was quite comfortable,in case any other tall people are wondering!

Cheers,

Jezza

[OzGTI]

Hey Jezza,

It's good that you drove both manual and DSG a couple of times. The manual version is great

I've had the DSG now for about four months - I say in the last six weeks or so I've really got the hang of it. Yes, the display is too small but after a while you don't feel you need it, yes it up chnges too soon in D (but I rarely drive with D - unless stuck in creeping traffic) , yes S can be 'manic' - all things you get used to after a while. Driving a manual is a more natural feeling than driving the DSG - especially until you get the hang of the DSG. The DSG requires a different technique, and that takes time to learn.

I'm 6'3 and I've got a perfect driving position - should be more than enough headroom for you at 6'6".

Good luck with the quotes...and the wait!!! It will all be worth it when it is sitting in your drive I can assure you.

[jcull]

Cheers OzGTI.

I definitely agree that the longer you use the DSG for the more used to it you get. I think if I got one I'd eventually come to grips with it. I just didn't want to take the chance that I might regret it when I liked the manual so much and couldn't find anything wrong with it.

The other thing was that the dealer told me the DSG box is a sealed for life unit which was not serviceable, meaning if something went wrong with it the whole box had to be replaced. I didn't like the sound of that. Does anyone know if this is true?

Jezza

PS 7 months is a LOOOOONG time to wait!!

[RedRobin]

Great review Jezza,

As Oz says, it takes quite a bit of time to get used to DSG - afterall it is a new method of doing things. At those times that you are critical of the gear changing thresholds in either D or S, you can always override with the paddles into any gear you wish and then either stay in 'manual' mode or hold OFF paddle to return to D or S. It takes getting used to.

I'm not saying that the Manual version is better than DSG....It simply comes down to personal preference.

[OzGTI]

Seven months is a very long time. Just think though,when you do get it, you will be just one of 600 Aussies with the car this year. More exclusive than a 3 series, an A4, C series Mercedes, more exclusive than a Lexus - even more exclusive than a Monaro for heavens sake.

It's just the waiting. I had to wait a month - got to the point where I could quote all the reviews and the damn brochure...that's how I found my way onto Tyresmoke...keeps you in touch with your soon to arrive pride and joy but stops you going mad!

Where are you based - what stealer?

[Snoopy]

Nice review and more or less the same conclusions i came to after driving both the DSG and manual at length, In the end the added cost of the DSG made my mind up if they had been the same price it would have been even harder to make the choice.

[Simonl]

[ QUOTE ]

The other thing was that the dealer told me the DSG box is a sealed for life unit which was not serviceable, meaning if something went wrong with it the whole box had to be replaced. I didn't like the sound of that. Does anyone know if this is true?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, early TT versions were fully sealed so you couldn't even change the oil. GTI ones can have an oil change, but not sure about a parts change.

[shipper1]

One of the things that appealed to me about the DSG box was the fact that I knew I would give a manual clutch a really hard time...TLGP!!! (traffic light grand prix..)I like the idea I can use Launch Control off the line and if the box eventually goes bang you have a reasonable argument that the software should have saved the mechanical package. try getting a replacement manual clutch under warranty - ain't gonna happen. VW will say the clutch is an item like a brake pad or washer fluid. This obviously wasn't my only motivation for opting for the DSG, there is also the convenience factor and the knowledge you are driving a machine at the very pointy end of gearbox technology

[zoomx3]

ozgti, 600 only this year? Cool. Its probably close, In Brisbane I have not seen another Gti on the road while I have been driving! I’ve seen another black one though with ski racks, while I was on foot, and he was thumping it out of the lights.

[OzGTI]

Yes,

VW Australia were allocated just 600 into Australia in the first year - from May 2005 to May 2006. I know they have been trying to get more. I think 6 or 7 month delays are quite common.

I was told by my dealer last week that people are coming in to the showroom but leaving when told they can't even get a test drive. The dealer we bought through is in a regional area- we know the boss - but they are now sold out until May 2006 and have been for some months. i took the first of this pre- orders - I would have liked black and i would have seriously considered sat/nav but the spec and colour were what he ordered. I even got a discount- he used it as the demo for three weeks from late May. I took delivery on June 27 so he didn't have to count it in is stock. As I said I know the guy so it was a pretty easy arrnagement to make.

I've seen 4 others in Melbourne - a white, another red, a silver and a black.

I've got a mate who says that every pizza palour owner in Melbourne drives a 3 series coupe. That may be a little harsh but there is no doubt that the GTI is going to be pretty exclusive for the next year or so at least, you will certainly see fewer GTI's than 3 series.

[rogerlomman]

[ QUOTE ]

I drove both up through the hills near my home town (which hosts a world class classic car rally on the same roads).

Jezza

[/ QUOTE ]

Jezza,

Nice review. I did the same thing earlier this year but had both cars for about 4 hours each.

I live in the Adelaide hills and ran my Clubman in Classic Adelaide Rally last year so of course this was the perfect place for a test. Both times were without the dealer.

I must say there was no way I was going to buy another auto (my current car is an auto 5.7 V8 Commodore - think 4 door Monaro for the non-aussies) but the DSG just changed the goalposts. I agree that the shift strategy is perhaps too slow in D and too manic in S but you have to expect a compromise with such a system.

My daily commute is around 80km's (50 miles) with about half in the hills and half in city traffic to work in the Adelaide CBD and the DSG copes so well with the stop start peak hour grind while the run through the hills is as smooth or as agressive as you want - just pick your preferred mode.

In the end I just couldn't pass on the DSG but like others here was tormented over the choice. Seems like your choice was an easy one...

_______________________________________________

Black, Leather, Sunroof, DSG, Towbar (for the clubbie).

Should be here December, or January, or perhaps February...

[OzGTI]

Now that's a daily commute I reckon I could cope with, especially with DSG. Relaxing while in traffic and exhilerating (potentially) once you clear the suburbs and hit the hills.

DSG sounds perfect for you Clubman

[rogerlomman]

And the bonus is that every day is like recce (only 4 weeks until this years rally). For any other South Aussies, I go down Gorge Rd in the morning and up Chain of Ponds on the way home.

The down side is Sunday drivers and only 15,000km's on a set of tyres.

_______________________________________________

Black, Leather, Sunroof, DSG, Towbar (for the clubbie).

Should be here December, or January, or perhaps February...

[OzGTI]

Not from SA but know both those roads quite well. We have to travel much further to find roads of that quality here in Melbourne. I just spent the weekend down along the Ocean Road - but too many tourists and they always get in the way.

[peugeot6]

Hi guys sounds like you have some good drives, but you should come to NZ for some really great drives out of Auckland and the rest of the country. Would even let you take my GTI for a spin. Really happy with the DSG choice I made ( previously a dedicated manual fan, prev vehcile 6 speed 306 GTI6), but with a reasonable amount of round town driving enjoy the DSG. Still go to the gym so the left leg still gets a workout. On a test drive found the manual easy to stall, and some other people have found the same. Generally leave in manual and use the paddles. Happy motoring.

[jcull]

Nice drive to work Clubman.

I also drove in the Classic Adelaide last year (father in laws jag xk150 dhc). Great fun having the whole road closed off and all to yourself. Would be nice to take the GTI in it one day!

Jezza

[OzGTI]

Thanks LPDGTI,

That's a fine offer - and driving your car would seem to be exactly same as driving mine except for the Interlagos.

May have some business to do in NZ in January - we'll see.

Might be a good new thread - favourite roads in your new GTI, especially if you could get a map of the drive as an attachment.

[mu71rd]

do you reckon that if someone was clever enough (or could be arsed) you could reprogram the gear shift manual change on the DSG so it works the other way round?!

any takers?

[silentandy]

You know I was thinking the same thing the other day. Surely it would just be a matter of swapping either the switches around or the wiring to them.

[rogerlomman]

You can find my favourite roads here.

http://www.classicadelaide.com.au/ca/event/c_guide.asp

[OzGTI]

Yes Clubman,

We know your are privileged when it come sto great roads just awaiting at your doorstep. If I remember correctly not only are thy great roads but not too heavily travelled either.