Avus_Bub Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 About time! Well done, I hope this doesn't put you off Re-Mapping. You'll get what you want in the end I'm sure. BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_s Posted January 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 i hope so, but im not so sure ill bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Excellent result! Now get down to VW and let 'em 'ave a butchers. See if there are any ECU updates available. If you do decide to get it tuned, then i would go to AmD to get a remap. They'd be quite wary, but i reckon they'd be especially thorough on your car and i dare say would give it a very thorough road-testing before they return it to you, so you might have to wait longer to get it back. They would probably tune it less aggresively too, which would be more reliable, and the map would be nice and progressive and with plenty of low down power and driveability but without ridiculous dollops of torque. But after all the trouble you've had, maybe you should perhaps sell it as standard (because it will be easier to sell it if it's standard) and either go for an R32 or possibly an S3 and then get that REVO'd to approx 265hp. At least they will have the four wheel drive traction so a Revo'd S3 would be pretty damn good IMO and there would be little or no torque-steer. You know, this is really why i got sick of tuning cars, because it was ruddy difficult to get it spot on. There were always anomalies and discrepencies that would always be hovering around somewhere. My old Rover turbo's were just becoming a money pit in the end, so that is why i went for the A6. I just thought sod it! I want the power and traction there straight out of the box and i have to say i have been just delighted with this car. 300hp and quattro and being a V8 just satisfies me plenty enough to stop me even contemplating tuning it. A F1 renault engineer said 'If you want a fast car then get one that's already fast in the first place' and this nailed it for me as far as deciding on my next quick car. Anyway, good luck and keep us up to date whatever you decide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_s Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 ok, big update !! as of the weekend the car seems to be driving very nicly again. the torque seems to kick in form 1800 rpm and she's not dropping down 2 gears with only a little acceleration. im not quite sure why this has happened so if anyone has any clues im all ears. There is still plenty of torque but with less of a surge as the power isnt all coming at 3000 rpm but now from 1800 rom through to 6000 rpm. theres alot less wheelspin and torque steer too. Oh and there isnt any misfiring either. Ive spoken to kim at qst and his advice os to see how it drives for the next 3 weeks and if theres any problems then he is happy to reset to standard and give me a refund. Vey nice of him. im happy if the car stays as it is to stick with the remap as its quite drivable now. and she really really shifts. Back out driving my car at the dead of night again, and with an ever bigger smile on my ugly mush !! i dont know if its possible that the programs for the gearbox and throttle control have altered back again. maybe they were temporarily thrown out by the change in the ecu program. i know its weird but its the only thing i can think of. many thanks to all of you for your support and advice on this post. jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_s Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 keytone, theres no updates available. mine has the latest code, they checked it when they did the fault code check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 The ECU has an adaptation function - maybe this is why the power is better controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The ECU has an adaptation function - maybe this is why the power is better controlled. [/ QUOTE ] you mean like the revo remap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The ECU has an adaptation function - maybe this is why the power is better controlled. [/ QUOTE ] ....I'd be very interested to understand more about what you are saying, please. Do you mean that the ECU can 'learn' from the behaviour it's being subjected to? Does that include individual driving style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminTDI Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The ECU has an adaptation function - maybe this is why the power is better controlled. [/ QUOTE ] ....I'd be very interested to understand more about what you are saying, please. Do you mean that the ECU can 'learn' from the behaviour it's being subjected to? Does that include individual driving style? [/ QUOTE ] Yup - I think so! Not sure if it's why Jays car is driving better or not though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 In that case I have to assume that the ECU continually updates itself. So, as a new owner drives the car, its ECU adapts and learns new 'tricks'. Likewise, I would assume that if you were to lend your car to a friend/GF/wifey etc the ECU would be subjected to new 'learning' or teachings. If this is so, I'm really displaying my ignorance here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_s Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 sitas3, can you elaborate on this adaptation function. kim says it doesnt learn. i need to understand this more please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazthecab Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I dont know if the term "learn" is correct, but, sometimes if you have a problem with the car if you disconnect the battery for a few minutes this is beleived to reset the ECU back to its default settings, i.e to its original programme, be it the factory one or the remap. I havent had need to do this on the Passat but it has worked on other cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Does this mean that if you take, for a real-world example, a re-mapped car in to have an aftermarket sound system installed, then disconnecting the battery for a while could cancel the re-map you had done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazthecab Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 No! Example:- the Citroen Picasso is renown for doing peculiar things, on mine I had "chimes" similar to the door open chimes coming from behind the dash on the Picasso at odd times and for no apparent reason, I disconnected the battery for 5 mins and never heard from them again. Other owners reported poor performance/misfires etc, which were cured the same way. I think the logic is akin to rebooting a computer. I'm sure someone will be along soon to dispute or agree with an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] No! Example:- the Citroen Picasso is renown for doing peculiar things, on mine I had "chimes" similar to the door open chimes coming from behind the dash on the Picasso at odd times and for no apparent reason, I disconnected the battery for 5 mins and never heard from them again. Other owners reported poor performance/misfires etc, which were cured the same way. I think the logic is akin to rebooting a computer. I'm sure someone will be along soon to dispute or agree with an explanation. [/ QUOTE ] That's a fair comment actually. There must be times when the software or memory chips become corrupted or in a state of logic lockup surely. This could be a whole new theory on intermittent faults on cars. I mean, how many times have you had to re-boot your pc in the past because it froze, or even just one background application became corrupt or caused the system to hang and then re-booting sorted it out! Well said that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] sitas3, can you elaborate on this adaptation function. kim says it doesnt learn. i need to understand this more please [/ QUOTE ] well if Kim says that then that's that! My understanding (and I'm no Bosch expert here) is that the Motronic ECU has adaptation values built in - mainly to cater for differing fuel octane levels like you get in the USA, and to cater for driving styles. So the higher the octane fuel, the ignition can be advanced slightly AUTOMATICALLY by the ECU. Both Revo and AMD code doesn't interrupt this and I'd be surprised if MTM blanked it out - its a safety device for the engine! So what I was thinking is that when your car is remapped, the adaptation values get reset and the car 'Learn's the new adaptation levels as you drive. Gradually (can take a few hundred miles so I'm told) the performance decreases as the ECU adapts to the fuel etc. IIRC On the S3/TT if you leave the ignition on for 15 mins then this has the same effect of 'resetting' the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbside Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hold it! Most cars ECU's have random access memories (RAM) and read only memories (ROM) just like PC's in their ECU's. When you have your car re-mapped, the technician alters the information stored in the ROM by loading a program he has written (Re-mapping) or by changing the ROM chip for one with a modified program (Superchips etc.). You can disconnect the battery or the ECU and these will NOT be affected. As far as 'adaption functions', 'base idle' and 'self learn' functions go these are stored in your ECU's RAM. These are generally the programs that reset themselves when the ECU or battery are disconnected. They can sometimes be reset or adjusted without disconnecting anything but these procedures are generally not known outside dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_s Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 thanks sitas3, that really helps my understanding of things, and i presume this is what happened to my car. would/could this mean the car drops down 2 gears at the slightest acceleration, and that theres not the low down torque? im still not quite sure about the differences between my torque plot (above) and millteks plots. mine is dsg theres is manual. i dont really see how there can be such a big difference in where the power comes in. it says in the manual for the car max torque 1800-5600 rpm. surely mine as a dsg should also follow this (its not specific in handbook as to wherther this is for dsg or manual). my max torque is at 2750 rpm and millteks is at 2150 rpm (both before remap) am not trying to get at anyone here but am just trying to understand my car. i will get a chance next week to drive another dsg to see how the power compares to mine side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcull Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Back to the dyno maps that have been posted, it has always been the case that the the ideal is a linear power curve and a flat torque curve. This is exactly what a standard GTI has and what makes driving it so enjoyable. Any remap should simply give more of the same, i.e. still be linear wrt power and flat wrt to torque, but just moved the lot up higher on the graph. This is the sort of outcome you should be trying to achieve from remapping, which it looks like the AmD and Milltek maps that were posted achieve very nicely. The QST one though gives you a big hole down low then a sudden surge and peak, which doesn't seem very desirable. Something is wrong when your re-map gives you considerably less power below 3000rpm than the standard car. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I just want to point out that Milltek don't re-map cars but manufacture and supply stainless steel performance exhaust systems which can greatly aid re-mapping. For example, a turbo-charged car re-mapped to 250 bhp is likely to then deliver 270 bhp after fitting a Hi-flow exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcull Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 I was assuming that the light blue line on the graph that you posted represented a car remapped and with Milltek exhausts, since it says "Milltek remapped" in the legend. If it is not remapped as well those exhausts sure produce a lot of extra power (up to 270 BHP) on their own! Surely the graph you posted is remapped (by somebody else) and with Millteks Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 jcull, I think your post is addressed to someone else....I didn't post any graphs. All I'm saying is that having Milltek Hi-flow on a turbocharged Mk5 GTI will add a further 20 bhp approx to a re-map. On their own without any re-map, Millteks only improve throttle response, turbo 'breathing' and might add a max of 5 bhp. I should have made my post more specific (I forgot I wasn't in the GTI forum!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Red are you viewing the forum in flat or threaded mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
encee Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Back to the dyno maps that have been posted, it has always been the case that the the ideal is a linear power curve and a flat torque curve. This is exactly what a standard GTI has and what makes driving it so enjoyable. Any remap should simply give more of the same, i.e. still be linear wrt power and flat wrt to torque, but just moved the lot up higher on the graph. This is the sort of outcome you should be trying to achieve from remapping, which it looks like the AmD and Milltek maps that were posted achieve very nicely. The QST one though gives you a big hole down low then a sudden surge and peak, which doesn't seem very desirable. Something is wrong when your re-map gives you considerably less power below 3000rpm than the standard car. Jeremy [/ QUOTE ] I would agree with this mate. Having just had mine remapped with Awesome GTI, using a remap formulated by APR, mine still drives exactly the same as it did with regards to torque, but it`s also made the torque curve much, much stronger, but still very linear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Red are you viewing the forum in flat or threaded mode? [/ QUOTE ] ....Flat Mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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