stevie_d Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Declare the remap, it's illegal not to as you'll be driving without insurance! At the end of the day, if you can't afford the increase in insurance, then don't get the remap, it's really as simple as that I had to switch to Greenlight insurance, as they're very mod friendly, when I remaped mine as the current insurers wanted to double the quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwo Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 IMO there is nothing worse than, for want of a better word, a chavved up A3 - as chap in 'modded A3' (chrome mirrors, s3 wheels - it wasn't s3 - used to have one) - found out when he was smoked by audi's finest soot chucker! Lexus style lights don't make it any quicker either! Declare all mods to insurer - and if you want to go quicker learn to drive correctly (the physics and balance of car into corners etc etc) and get better brakes! (And no, i am not being patronising but as we have all been there, just got licence and think we are an F1 driver, and fail to appreciate we had a lot to learn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Remap on a NA 1.6 is pointless anyway. If you want to go faster, buy a lighter car with a 1.6 (like a 106/306) For me to chip my car (S3) at 20 is an increase of £200 on the insurance but I've got other things to save for What I don't understand is that if the chips are detectable, then why have Revo, AMD et al not been prosecuted for false advertising - as it says 'completly undetectable' If it is not, then wtf are they doing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] What I don't understand is that if the chips are detectable, then why have Revo, AMD et al not been prosecuted for false advertising - as it says 'completly undetectable' If it is not, then wtf are they doing?? [/ QUOTE ] ....Good point about the false advertising. Most re-maps are reliable so that lessens the come-back. "Wtf are they doing??" - Whatever it takes to grab your money and stay in business, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Declare the remap, it's illegal not to as you'll be driving without insurance! [/ QUOTE ] That's not quite the case. In the event of the claim the insurer (if they found out) would likely void your first-party insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 When I went to revo, I said 'is this undetectable for insurance purposes' they said 'yes' same thing when i called amd when i was looking for a 1.8TQ they said it was totally undetectable, including for insurance. TBH, if I wasn't a member of TSN, I'd have a remap - as from what the 'experts' have told me its ok to not declare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I asked a fair few questions when getting a remap and when i asked if it was detectable i was told that the dealers woundln't find it with there diagnostic kit but if the ECU was sent off to Bosch then they would have no problems finding it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I asked a fair few questions when getting a remap and when i asked if it was detectable i was told that the dealers woundln't find it with there diagnostic kit but if the ECU was sent off to Bosch then they would have no problems finding it... [/ QUOTE ] ....This is exactly what I have been told, almost word for word, by two independent tuners in the last few days. It isn't as black&white as 'is a re-map detectable or not detectable'. It's a question of risk. As has already been said: If the accident/claim is serious/big enough, there is more likelihood of an insurance company investigating much further - Either by arranging for the ECU to go to Germany or by hiring an independent specialist. I actually know someone who has been approached and offered regular work by an insurance company specifically to check for re-maps. The insurance company was put off by the heavy financial investment needed! IF the car is found to be re-mapped and it wasn't declared and agreed as undertaken by the insurer, any claim could and probably would become void. Furthermore, the insurance company would doubtless refuse to insure you again and your name and details of your deception (as they would view it) would be shared among other insurance companies. All this is quite apart from the possibility of any private claim against you by an injured party if your insurance became void. In the scenario of there being no accident but simply a claim under warranty, detection may be less likely but again it depends on what it would cost the dealer/manufacturer. Consequently there would be the risk of you bearing all the repair costs yourself. Surely this is a no-brainer ?? Always declare everything to your insurer. Even if you saved all of your insurance charges, it still wouldn't be worth it if you were involved in the wrong kind of accident or claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Read very carefully what REVO say on their website about being detectable. They state that the dealers equipment cannot tell if it's remapped, but [ QUOTE ] Insurance companies, like dealers, use different methods of discovery when it comes to chipping. Some use dealer computers to inspect the ECU while others physically open the ECU to inspect the soldering on the chip. In either event the software would be completely invisible. [/ QUOTE ] And this leads you to believe that these are the only options that are going to be used to investigate your car. They've already told you the dealer can't see it, and then imply that the only other way to tell is to open the ECU and look at the soldering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 so surely that's false advertising - representing it as undetectable when it isn't. ps. if i did get a remap, then i'd declare it - i'm just interested in how they can get away with saying its undetectable when it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 They don't say it's undetectable to the insurance company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 but they imply it is - there's no 'it is possible' caveat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I guess at teh end of the day they could find some other evidence (like a Superchips sticker ?) and then investigate further, as "undetectable" remaps become more advertised insurance companies will find ways to avoid paying out. I can understand that remapped cars may get driven quicker but I wonder how many are actually using the extra performance when the accident happened ? Say it was stolen, receovered & the (non cosmetic) mods discovered would this be grounds to invalidate a claim ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I guess at teh end of the day they could find some other evidence (like a Superchips sticker ?) [/ QUOTE ] The REVO chip is just a computer plugged in & a code uploaded, so no tampering or stickers. I believe TSN when you guys say that it is possible to detect it in Germany, but I still think that the tuners are misleading the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] but they imply it is [/ QUOTE ] To you maybe, but to me it says that the 2 ways they tell you about are not going to tell the insurers that it's been chipped. Nothing more, and nothing less. It's called advertising........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefast1 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I Think they are all detectable, I was told that you could not remap an ECU if there was a previous code on there like revo trial software, it would have to be flashed back to stock then the new code loaded, if the basic Tunner can detect this before they start then it won't be hard for the insurance investigator to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skifly Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 well after a little chat with a "performance mad" (his own words) tech at a VW dealership they claim they dont know how to detect it without having to go to VW themselves. Didnt mention anything about checksums just in case they decide to investigate on any TSN cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 What a VW tech says he is and what he actually is are two completely different things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Best to tell them! Just told mine about my new exhaust. Was extra on the policy but better safe than sorry I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skifly Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 mook - just relaying a conversation. He rides a ducati and gave quite a bit of other info about a 32's in the workshop including taking a well informed stab at the 32's aftermarket exhaust and mentioning stuff about the flapper mod. Nice guy... and he seemed to be genuine when he said they wouldnt know how to check... obviously they would simply call VW if necessary but thats a side issue to what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Sorry Skifly - should have included one of these after my post. I still can't find a petrolhead at my local VW dealer. Apart from the guy who rings me up every time mine's in for a service to ask what other mods I've had done to it this time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilB Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'm having a HID kit fitted to the Alfa. I did think about just fitting them, but decided it's not worth it and I'll pay the extra when I declare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skifly Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 no worries mook - just didnt want you lot to think i was like the rest of the great unwashed and believed everything the dealers say... Think he would be the sort of bloke i would want my car dealt with by - he seems like he would turn a blind eye quite happily to mods - obviously unless a mod killed something. on the downside though, that same stealers (appropriate this time) bodyshop quoted me over 2.5k for the repairs to the keymarks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisel Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Should I alert my insurers if I install the Haldex PPP upgrade to my mk 4 R32? It isn't really a modification is it? It is going to be bloody hard to detect - not going to appear on any VAGCOM diagnostics. The part is standard on all Mk5 4 Motion Golfs now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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