Thorburn Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Just took one of these out with a friend from work (Been thinking about a 172 Cup as some practicality would be nice, but the Renault dealer didn't have any so thought I'd try the Trophy since they had one) and am sorely disappointed by it. Ergonomically the Clio is horrible, the Recaro seats look great and hug you brilliantly but the mounts on them are very tall, feels like you are sitting on the roof. The length of the gear throw was in a similar league to my old Fiesta Si and it was too low down for the way I sit, meaning I had to actually move forward in the seat to find 1st, 3rd or 5th. I struggled to get the steering wheel at an angle I liked, it was either angled too far up or my knees hit the steering column. Pedals didn't seem particularly well spaced either, but I didn't at any point catch two at once, it just felt a bit cramped. Ride was reasonable, it wasn't crashy but you could certainly feel the bumps. Turn in was very sharp but it seemed a case very much of turn in and hope, front gripping perfectly but at such a short exposure to the car it was hard to tell if the rear was going to follow. It never bit but it felt as if you had to simply place your faith in it and push the boundaries further and further until one day you overstep the mark. Maybe on limits its superbly controlled and playful but on a spirited test drive it felt somewhat nervous. This wasn't helped by the way the wheel pulled at your hands as you passed over bumps, it certainly felt connected to the road but it also felt like the engine was having too much say in your direction of travel. The engine felt strong at high revs but below 4500rpm it lacked kick. As you grew to understand the car no doubt its a cracker and as I know from following a pair of 182's at the North East meet its no slouch, but it didn't feel instantly special in a way something like the Puma does. Perhaps it was all a case of expectations being built up too high but I was very disappointed that it just didn't quite hit the spot I was expecting it to. Went and tried a Cooper S Convertible afterwards (Just because we could) and it was fantastic. Felt so much more fun to drive comfortably within the cars and your own limits and didn't seem intent on trying to wrench the steering wheel away from you over every bump. Certainly a very different car but one that you feel would be far easier to live with. The saleswoman was clearly very enthusiastic too, knew a lot about the cars and even showed us round a Works GP they had waiting for a customer to collect in the workshop. Can see why they sell so many of them Looking at a Clio 197 tomorrow as my friend was interested in them so will add up a quick report on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapsuds Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Ergonomically the Clio is horrible, the Recaro seats look great and hug you brilliantly but the mounts on them are very tall, feels like you are sitting on the roof. [/ QUOTE ] Try sitting in one with the normal seats!!! The recaros drop the height by a quite significant amount! [ QUOTE ] The length of the gear throw was in a similar league to my old Fiesta Si [/ QUOTE ] Odd, but it is the old 5-speed set of cogs..... the new 6 speed in my Megane and new 197 is a delight. Incredibly short shifts, if a little notchy from cold. [ QUOTE ] Ride was reasonable, it wasn't crashy but you could certainly feel the bumps. Turn in was very sharp but it seemed a case very much of turn in and hope, front gripping perfectly but at such a short exposure to the car it was hard to tell if the rear was going to follow. It never bit but it felt as if you had to simply place your faith in it and push the boundaries further and further until one day you overstep the mark. Maybe on limits its superbly controlled and playful but on a spirited test drive it felt somewhat nervous. [/ QUOTE ] Its a FWD and totally different to your MX-5!!! That back side will never folow you around, unless you do some crazy lift-off oversteer!!! It is an incredibly quick car through the corners - just something you have to get used to!! Have a look at my just posted review of my Megane - points to the same thing realy - awesome grip that you just can't understand!!!! Linky to Post here..... [ QUOTE ] Went and tried a Cooper S Convertible afterwards (Just because we could) and it was fantastic. Felt so much more fun to drive comfortably within the cars and your own limits and didn't seem intent on trying to wrench the steering wheel away from you over every bump. Certainly a very different car but one that you feel would be far easier to live with. [/ QUOTE ] Totaly different kettle of fish - only the Works GP that is stripped out might come close. The Mini isnt in the same league for driving ability, but is still a genuinly rapid vehicle. I cant stand them - they are incredibly small, cramped and common . My best mates missus has an S and she says its not much faster than her old Punto!! Women eh...... i didnt like the driving position or feel of her car when i drove it though. [ QUOTE ] Looking at a Clio 197 tomorrow as my friend was interested in them so will add up a quick report on that. [/ QUOTE ] Great car and a step-up from the 182 in terms of interior. The seats are STILL too high, so go for Recaros. Also, its much bigger and not as quick. It might be a little more poised on the road with that extra weight, but i never drove it as it's simply too small for my needs..... PS - in silver, they look great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Thorburn, when I was looking for the S3, I test drove a standard 182. I found it very dissapointing, like you say. The seating position was horrible & the engine was gutless - I was screaming 'come on, come on!!' I wanted to like it, because they look cool as f*ck, but I found it boring & slow (i enjoyed my mate's 106 1.1 more..) The cooper S is so so much better. It feels quick, is nimble & drives really well. I prefer the styling of the 182, but the cooper S is a much better drive. I'm glad to see that it isn't just me who doesn't rate the 182, but why do so many people seem to - do you need to 'learn it'?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterh Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I had a 182 for a year and must say it was a very good car. It took me about 6 – 8 months to properly learn how to drive it. Once you are properly familiar with it and lean how to attack corners using the amazing levels of turn in available it is very rewarding drive. Part of the problem is you really have to be driving it at 10/10ths to get the best out of it. As it’s a high revving N/A engine you also need to keep the revs high to get the best out of it. This may mean many people find it easier to get the best out of the Cooper S or S3. The 182 needs you to give it your full attention to give you its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 [ QUOTE ] This may mean many people find it easier to get the best out of the Cooper S or S3. The 182 needs you to give it your full attention to give you its best. [/ QUOTE ] I think this could well be the case, and 3 up with a salesman in the back probably isn't the best way to experience it for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I've said it before JT - you bought the wrong car when you bought the MX-5. Why? Well because there is very little that can match it for driver enjoyment and feedback. It's the most enjoyable drivers car I have ever owned. It ruins you. M3's and the 6 included - it remains the best smiles per mile, driver orientated car I've ever owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This may mean many people find it easier to get the best out of the Cooper S or S3. The 182 needs you to give it your full attention to give you its best. [/ QUOTE ] I think this could well be the case, and 3 up with a salesman in the back probably isn't the best way to experience it for the first time. [/ QUOTE ] yeah, that was the way I test drove it - full of people & with the salesman looking nervous... the problem is that if it does take 6 months to get to know one, then how can I buy one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I've said it before JT - you bought the wrong car when you bought the MX-5. Why? Well because there is very little that can match it for driver enjoyment and feedback. It's the most enjoyable drivers car I have ever owned. It ruins you. M3's and the 6 included - it remains the best smiles per mile, driver orientated car I've ever owned. [/ QUOTE ] I took it along the same road I test drove both the others on afterwards and while it probably carried less speed than the Clio could have done through the corners it was the best of the bunch. The start of the run was VERY bumpy too and both the front wheel drive cars would momentarily feel all at sea, the especially Clio really fighting you to try and follow scars in the surface. The MX-5 more or less sailed straight over. If it was realistically in budget (and neither of these cars were either, but a 172 is serious consideration) I'd actually like to try a 1-series We had a nosey round a 130i M Sport and a 120d and I still quite like em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterh Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Having driven a race prepared MX-5 1.6i very hard on track several times there is no way it’s as quick as a 182 in a straight line but I think the MX-5 was faster in the corners and defiantly more fun. Not quite as practical however! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I did similar drives a couple of years back - drove 172 cup and Mini cooper s back to back. For me it was the reverse - I had no pre-conceieved ideas about the Renault but had very high hope for the Mini - 160+ bhp in a small car. I hated the Mini, it was small, cramped, I thought the performance was pretty mediocre to the point I am sure my old Lupo GTi was faster to drive. The Renault though I loved and we brought one - fantastic car and I would have another particually a Trophy if I could justify a small car on the drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Well Renault decided not to let us out in the 197, I've taken a firm interest in the 172 and 172 Cup's they have and am heading in on Monday as I'm booked to drive them back to back but they didn't seem to think Ben was seriously looking at the 197 and so they took us out in it but didn't let him drive it. The salesman was different to the one we spoke to yesterday and didn't seem at all interested in the cars that we were looking at. Afterwards went up the Ford garage and took an 02-reg Puma out which they had. Instantly fell in love with the handling and feel of the car again, mechanically it seemed perfect, and spent a good 40 minutes trying to sort a deal on it, but the paint had too many scratches and scrapes in it, I wanted to pay £6500 with a respray (which they reckoned would cost £800) but the best they would offer me was £6000 'the best we can do valeting it' which they didn't sound too promising on (down from a £7000 sticker price) so walked away. Shame as it got me thinking about how good the Puma is again, took it out over the very same road I tried the 182 Trophy and Cooper S over and it felt so much confidence inspiring carrying more speed into the corners and easier to place but they weren't willing to go as far as I'd have wanted to make a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Just took one of these out with a friend from work (Been thinking about a 172 Cup as some practicality would be nice, but the Renault dealer didn't have any so thought I'd try the Trophy since they had one) and am sorely disappointed by it. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry you didn't get on with it. The 500-limited, Sachs-equipped 182 Trophy is regarded to be the Holy Grail. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Sorry you didn't get on with it. The 500-limited, Sachs-equipped 182 Trophy is regarded to be the Holy Grail. Ian [/ QUOTE ] Maybe if I'd driven it like I drove the Puma (really trusted the front end as I'd driven one before) I'd of got on with it better. But it was too expensive anyway. Like I said, booked in to try a 172 and 172 Cup on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapsuds Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 go for the cup mate - same price, but easier to sell on in the future and better all round - more 'hardcore' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 To be honest I don't think I'll change, but gonna give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Puma racing JT? Or get a std one, and add a turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted August 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Puma racing JT? Or get a std one, and add a turbo [/ QUOTE ] Supposed to be a bit too stiffly sprung (and out of budget), the Puma just feels so beautifully connected to the road. Turbo would make things a bit scrappy I think, I didn't like the feeling in the 182 Trophy that it was constantly moving power between the wheels trying to find grip, seemed to exacerbate the feeling of the engine controlling the direction of travel rather than the steering wheel. The Puma 1.7 shares the MX-5's feeling of completeness, the power available feels perfectly in proportion to the grip, and the suspension neither wallows through the turns nor knocks your fillings out. They are both very different cars to drive, the Puma you can throw into a corner in a manner that would see an MX-5 oversteering horribly, while the MX-5 you take a smoother line and can get on the power earlier. I was tempted to buy the one I drove, if its paintwork had been in better condition I would of had a VERY hard decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunktrophy Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Thorburn, when I was looking for the S3, I test drove a standard 182. I found it very dissapointing, like you say. The seating position was horrible & the engine was gutless - I was screaming 'come on, come on!!' I wanted to like it, because they look cool as f*ck, but I found it boring & slow (i enjoyed my mate's 106 1.1 more..) The cooper S is so so much better. It feels quick, is nimble & drives really well. I prefer the styling of the 182, but the cooper S is a much better drive. I'm glad to see that it isn't just me who doesn't rate the 182, but why do so many people seem to - do you need to 'learn it'?? [/ QUOTE ] i seem to remember a black s3 trying with out success to keep up with my clio trophy and miniandys 182 at the scottish/north east meet.At 1 point my brother in the passenger seat turning round to see the s3 nearly in the ditch trying to keep up!!! Renault made a special car when they made the trophy (oh and did i say the front dampers cost 1300 quid each??) makes the car seem like quite good value for money!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBuer Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 ...and not so good value for money when it's out of warranty and the dampers need replacing Nah in all fairness, it's a good fun little car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunktrophy Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 they dont need to be replaced, they can be rebuilt at a fraction of the cost as they are motorsport based dampers. Rears aren't remote reservoired so cost a lot less to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I've said it before JT - you bought the wrong car when you bought the MX-5. Why? Well because there is very little that can match it for driver enjoyment and feedback. It's the most enjoyable drivers car I have ever owned. It ruins you. M3's and the 6 included - it remains the best smiles per mile, driver orientated car I've ever owned. [/ QUOTE ] Apart from another one MX5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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