DSG Kickdown

[punas]

I recently spent two weeks on holiday in France with our DSG GTI. I don't get much use out of it at home as it is the Wife's car during the week. Anyway, I finally got a prolonged spell of using DSG. I'm afraid I got a little frustrated at times as follows.

My main issues seemed to be when accelerating onto dual carriageways from slip roads. Whether I was in M or D, I would quite often instigate the kick-down, and infact in general in either M or D, the kick down would often make itself known. So rather than a smooth surge in 3rd or 4th onto a dual carriageway, I would get a kick down, loads of revs and some embarassment.

I had the same in M when overtaking, slip from 6th to 4th, and surge past the vehicle ahead. A lot of roads in France are massively straight and go off into the horizon, so 4th is easily good enough, but I sometimes got kick-down into 3rd with all the associated revs and confusion/frustration.

I guess I am just being heavy footed but I would stress that under most of these cases I am deliberately avoiding the 'extra' bit of throttle travel that is defintiely a kick-down. So is it just practice/expericence for this? I was expecting M mode to not kick-down at all, or at least only past the 'extra' throttle travel point?

On a plus side, you can do some neat control in D mode. When you come out of a roundabout in D and 3rd gear, you can avoid early change-ups by slowly depressing the throttle as the car accelerates, you stay in 3rd and the revs smoothly rise until the car is going like a rocket. Obviously, eventually you have to bail out and lift off and let the gear box shift up to 6th, but it's a great feeling when you get it right. I think D-mode is surprisingly powerful.

[edo]

I think you need lighter boots - i never get kickdown in manual!

[seanGT3RS]

I didn't think it could kick down in M???

[Simonl]

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I didn't think it could kick down in M???

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Only if you absolutely floor it through the kick down notch on the pedal!!!

you must have very heavy boots dude!

[RedRobin]

For fast exit slip road situations I always pop into S from D. Also, for some overtaking. Always best to feed throttle progressively rather than kickdown imo.

[Oli]

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For fast exit slip road situations I always pop into S from D. Also, for some overtaking. Always best to feed throttle progressively rather than kickdown imo.

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I think, as youve said in your opening paragraph, you dont drive the car much. I had the same problem as you when I first got mine, but now Im used to it I either stick it in manual or sport before manoevering

[RedRobin]

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I think, as youve said in your opening paragraph, you dont drive the car much.

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....I assume you mean the original poster doesn't drive the car much. I've done 16K in my first year - Not major but not minor either.

[Oli]

Yep, sorry robin, too many things on my mind. DOH

[nhs]

You can always flip the paddle before you put your foot down and this will keep it in the gear selected for 20 seconds while you accelerate in that gear - prevents the kickdown, but will still change down if you get enough revs in the gear you have selected.....

Again unless you floor it, in which case the box will usually drop two gears anyway, so a moderate foot is called for

[Neimad]

I have to admit, I'm finding the kickdown comes in far too easily -- I've 'accidently' triggered it a number of times when on the motorway and going for an overtake. I also keep booting it out of 2nd gear corners -- it seems to just be changing down as I round the corner and then when I push the loud pedal I get nothing, so I nudge it a little more and then take off as I must've persuaded it to drop an extra gear or something...

Mind you, I've had it for less than a week so I'm still figuring out how it works

[Simonl]

If you are giving it full welly in a higher gear at lower revs, aren't you in the wrong gear anyway! Surely if you want maximum power/speed quickly (hence the reason for booting it) then surely you need to knock it down a couple. What i do is always move the lever into the M position first. I have driven my car as hard as you like round some pretty demanding twisties and on many a motorway and it has NEVER EVER changed on it's own (in M mode). But then i wouldn't floor it in 5th at say 30mph... i would wack it in 2nd... (get those nice engine blurps) and power my way through the gearbox- much more fun!

[petsy]

you should find that the dsg will do some adaptation to your driving given time.

btw it's time to change your sig.

[RedRobin]

The only time my DSG has ever changed on its own (without my intended action) is as she gets into the red zone - Regardless of Manual/S/D mode. It's a safeguard action.

[Simonl]

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The only time my DSG has ever changed on its own (without my intended action) is as she gets into the red zone - Regardless of Manual/S/D mode. It's a safeguard action.

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exactly, otherwise you'd only be bouncing of the limiter anyway

[AGK512]

In manual mode in my R if you "mash the carpet" and a lower gear than you currently have selected is still 'in range' it will drop to that gear even if it's several down .... which is quite a surprise the first time it does it

[punas]

I accept 'heavy foot' syndrome to some degree, and possibly the cases in M mode are where I have put the pedal right down.

A typical example is where, as far as I am concerned, I want to overtake as quickly as possible - so I am in D, I hit the '-' paddle twice and floor it very shortly after. With this you get a pause, some revs, then another pause as the system kicks-down, presumably from 4th to 3rd (i.e. my two down shifts - or did it only manage one? - followed by a further kick-down), massive revs and overtaking before going back into 4th at more reasonable revs, in my view.

Maybe I just need to be more gentle, it's just difficult to do when you want to overtake as quickly as possible. Maybe my double '-' paddle is only 6th to 5th before the kick-down does a 5th to 3rd. Anyway, I can't see a good reason for kick-down in M mode, that's my main point I think.

[punas]

Just re-reading some of the posts again. I should say that I deliberately down shift using the paddles, such that I am in M mode, then I start to overtake. The only conclusion from this must be that I am ham-footed and am going past the 'always' kick-down point, even for M mode.

I still think it's a shame that it is possible for this to happen in M mode, but accept that it is mainly user error on my part, coming to the GTI's turbo after having to ring the neck out of my BMW 325 to get the same punch.

Thanks for the clarifications everyone. I'll try and do better next time I'm let loose out of town.

[AGK512]

Basically in my experience the anti-stall, over-rev and kickdown work regardless of mode. the first and 2nd because it has to and the last there feels like a bit of a 'click' when pressing to the floor which will just drop gears. Yes I strongly suspect you are 'being changed down' to third for maximum accelleration.

[RedRobin]

Punas > try popping into S from D next time you want to overtake quickly and then go back to D or whatever afterwards. I think you'll find it very direct and reliable.

[nhs]

Pumas - if you are in D mode, don't bother with changing down with the paddles first, just simply plant your foot to the floor as this will make the DSG drop down at least two gears.

I suspect it has been getting "confused" if you first drop two gears on the paddles AND then flooring it. This puts the box into manual mode first and then your foot going all the way to the floor will be attempting to override it.

Simply booting it in D is usually adequate and sufficient for a surge

However for a controlled rapid accellerate in a planned way, then change to S first at the start of your "get ready to overtake or go" sequence. This will select a gear ready for maximum thrust, but as DSG has already changed down for S mode, the rev and torque changes are much more controlled. Foot deep to the floor in S mode is usually sufficient and optimal for any overtake manouvre.....

Good luck with your DSG - I've done over 5K with mine and am still learning!

[AGK512]

In mine if you press the accelerator a smidge before you pull the down shift paddle you get a nice smooth change (cos you obviously neeed to keep the revs up) and then keep pressing

If you press to the floor it will ALWAYS select the lowest possible gear on kickdown

Kickdown is basically launch control on the move

[RedRobin]

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However for a controlled rapid accellerate in a planned way, then change to S first at the start of your "get ready to overtake or go" sequence. This will select a gear ready for maximum thrust, but as DSG has already changed down for S mode, the rev and torque changes are much more controlled. Foot deep to the floor in S mode is usually sufficient and optimal for any overtake manouvre.....

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....Exactly! Why couldn't I have written it like that!?

The only thing I would add is to plant your right foot smoothly and progressively in S to avoid possible wheelspin, rather than stamping it. The kickdown style of driving doesn't really suit the GTI imo.

It's probably taken me nearer 10,000 miles to get really familiar with DSG but I am a slow learner.

[punas]

Thanks everyone. I have used Red's suggestion (from a while back) of slipping into S mode first, and agree that this works well. I think my paddle use, followed by accelerator use, that went past the kick-down mark was my problem. In my previous posts, when I say kick-down, I don't think I mean 'stamp on the pedal as hard and fast as I can', I mostly mean pushing the accelerator all the way to the floor (i.e. too far).

As for slip roads, I must come out of D mode really, and again make sure I am not over zealous with the accelerator, such that I avoid the kick-down switch.

These kick-downs only catch me out now and again, it's just a liitle embarassing in front of the passenger when it happens. I suspect I just need a bit more experience/practice with detecting where the kick-down 'button' starts, i.e. how much accelerator travel I have to play with.

Even with all of the above play/experimentaion, I am still impressed with how quick the car can be in D mode. But, as we've discussed, it's not the solution to every scenario, give or take some driver competence

[petsy]

it's suggested if you want to use the paddles to drop a couple of gears for rapid acceleration that you slightly put your foot down on the accelerator then drop your gears using the paddles.

[RedRobin]

Hi Punas . Thanks for explaining your interpretation of kickdown - To me it means stampdown! (from my old BMW days).

It's all a question of 'feel'. Yes, D-mode is quite powerful but the power response doesn't feel quite as 'direct' as in S-mode for example - Of course not because it's partly dependent on revs and torque as to which gear is selected in D.

I'm not saying this is at all necessary but I find some shoes much more 'helpful' for driving than others. I invested in a pair of Piloti driving shoes from America and like them so much that I am thinking of buying some more - They have an excellent range and they aren't all flameproof silver with wings!