graeme86 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Ladies and Gentlemen I pose the question. Can a US-spec (Larger diameter - 15% more area in fact!)MAF be bolted onto a Euro spec engine? And be made to work. Consider these facts. Larger MAF is stock on US 3.2 litre R 32 Larger MAF is stock on Audi TT 3.2 Larger MAF is stock on Mark IV DSG R32 Common knowledge is they all produce 250 PS. Now I have found an interesting thread on a German forum where a gentleman has in fact done this, with the help of a chip tuner. They have basically bolted on the larger DSG air intake, airbox and MAF and have then manually tweeked the stock small MAF program by entering (copying)the factory DSG fuelling parameters (just to compensate for the increased air flow...plus he raised the rev limit slightly..while he was there ) Here is the full thread (in German): DSG MAF thread This seems to be a viable option if you have someone who can tweak the chip.As I said the chiptuner just copied the DSG fuelling parameters from VWs own tuning of the DSG. I am more interested in a more OEM approach.(mainly because no one around here can "tweak" a chip) Why couldn't you just flash load the factory US program after installing the bigger MAF? Some things which may throw a spanner into this theory: US top grade fuel is only slightly higher than 98RON, but surely the ECU has the built in adjustment to run on "only 98". After all it can adjust down in Europe from 98 to 95, which I would think would be a bigger jump. US cars have the aux radiator. Big deal - so do I in Australia. Is it there just to cope with higher ambient temps that may be encountered - or is there increased load on the engine with the bigger MAF - I think the former. Different emission standards in US? If anything probably set "cleaner" Different tweaking for humidity etc. This may affect someone in Europe trying this. The ECU can only adjust fuelling a certain amount for variances. I'm pretty certain that Florida and Queensland have the same very high humidity..so again..I'm golden on this point This brings me to another thought:I wonder if US tune the car differently for different regions e.g. California (lower quality fuel) / Florida / Snow belt? The only other difference in the ECU tuning that I can think of, is that the egine has the sealed evap system with that monstrosity in the spare wheel well and the "gas cap" light in the cluster. I am not sure whether the US flash would be looking for this setup somehow and throw a code if it wasn't installed completely. Any other spanners? besides the obvious one of actually convincing the dealer to do it in the first place. I welcome thoughts on the subject. Lets try and get a nice factual database happening for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helfinger Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 i have the MAF housing from a Audi RS4 but the way my filter fits is not on a stock setup...as i'm running a SC. The MAF inside is just the same, its just the casing surround from what i understand on the US spec. To be honist for the extra gain i can't see much benefit unless your going down the route of further modifications... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thanks graeme86 I´m happy and proud that you like my DSG-MAF Thread If anybody has questions about that tuning, fell free to contact me. Best regards from Nuremberg / Germany Speedo / Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarj Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 The MKIV R32 produces 250PS with the 6463 software upgrade, no need for a bigger MAF to get the 250PS that the same engine produces in every other VW/Audi product. I will say one thing about US spec R32s though, they seem to post quicker 1/4 mile/0-100 times. Perhaps this is due to the larger MAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decked Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm not too sure if it's got anything to do with the size of the MAF, it's probably down to the race fuel the US drag guys stick in their R32's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 with the bigger MAF and a custom software you get dyno proven 15-20HP more than the best stock software and the best is...the increase of torque and horsepoper at lower and middle RPM´s is about 10%....this is what you REALLY feel as a daily driver.... by the way....the fuel consumption drops about 5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan32 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 one problem I can see is that US spec cars run on 95 ron fuel as opposed to UK 97 (or so it says in the respective fuel caps) so our maps may already be different. Would think it will be difficult if you haven't got a chip tuner who can alter the map/upload US code. I'm up at a tuners next week so will investigate this idea with them. Odd that the US spec cars are reportedly faster than Europe spec. Maybe the larger MAF plays bigger role than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 US-spec R32s *start* at 250hp, and will produce more power with just a chip (10hp or so), and further still with chip and intake (15-18hp combined). From what I've seen here, the 6463 update seems to be the equiv of any stage I aftermarket chip, and maxes out around 250hp so it's pretty clear you're still down on power, before and after. I've very little doubt that the difference is the MAF. As for fuel, there's nothing that magical about it. 95 RON is about the equiv of 91 PON or (RON+MON)/2 98 RON is about the quiv of 94 PON The US-spec R32 is tuned for 91-94 PON so you'd be fine running anything 95 RON or above. Oh, and just for the record. Race fuel is not the reason people are running low 14's in stock R32s and mid 13's with chip and intake. Most folks are not using race fuel. The few who are, are running low 13's. And with cams, exhaust, intake, and cam chip on race fuel, we've got a couple folks in the high 12's. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme86 Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] with the bigger MAF and a custom software you get dyno proven 15-20HP more than the best stock software and the best is...the increase of torque and horsepoper at lower and middle RPM´s is about 10%....this is what you REALLY feel as a daily driver.... by the way....the fuel consumption drops about 5% [/ QUOTE ] Gruß Dirk...thanks for the personal feedback...I can't believe you have seen this thread! I forgot to mention this important fact of the conversion! That's a pretty weighty thread on the Audi forum to wade thru and translate to get all the info. Dan32, as Daemon42 says, they use a different fuel rating system over there. Ian, I was hoping you would read this! Can you comment on that possible evap issue? As its a sealed system does it just throw the dash light because a simple sensor detects a pressure leak or would the ECU programming have some say in it as well? And maybe we can now assume that the entire US has the same ECU coding? I don't know maybe Cali is still different? And do you know what the US factory software coding is in the ECU? I mean the software update number that is installed in the ECU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Don't know the coding, but I do know that all of the US got the same software. 91 octane (PON) is the highest you can get in California so that's what all US-spec R32s get as their minimum recommended octane rating. Can't answer the question about the evap system. I don't think there's any sensors in that charcoal cannister in the spare tire well hump, but who knows. If there is a perceived emissions problem it'll throw a code and you'll get a CEL. I can't think of any other way you're going to find out this stuff except to try it. Either OEM software, or one of the US-spec aftermarket chips. I'd recommend GIAC. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurotuning Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi all, Im from Mexico and got 1 of 12 euro spec 2003 R32, so Iminterested in this tread, waht do you think if I can get an ECU and MAF from a USA R32 model and install in my car, can this work? what about if that ECU came with a REVO program already uploaded? please let me know opinions....thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I think that we'll never know the answer to this question until one of you guys does it. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme86 Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 You go first, Eurotuning! Seriously, just trying to cover all technical bases first. A mechanic here told me it "wouldn't work because US have OBD and we don't." I'm not quite sure what he meant by that and he hasn't elaborated. And not having a great deal of luck finding out the difference in the evap system setup so far (just in case ECU has a greater hand with monitoring, and may throw a wobbly without all the bits attached) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quozl Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] You go first, Eurotuning! Seriously, just trying to cover all technical bases first. A mechanic here told me it "wouldn't work because US have OBD and we don't." I'm not quite sure what he meant by that and he hasn't elaborated. And not having a great deal of luck finding out the difference in the evap system setup so far (just in case ECU has a greater hand with monitoring, and may throw a wobbly without all the bits attached) [/ QUOTE ] Graeme what about Scott who used to work fro AMD? He is on the Gold Coast now but he mentioned he can do custom chip tuning for the car when we spoke to him at BPS that time. Maybe he could get it setup for you? Cheers Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme86 Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Dirk - You have a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 thanks for the reminder man because i received a lot of question with the same background i will give the information right here: the DSG-MAF-Upgrade was performed by http://www.rueddel-motorsport.de/ Robert Rueddel´s webpage is always NOT actual, he sells the MAF-tuning not "offical" and immediately answering to Emails happens not very often... but don´t worry...he is a very helpful and nice guy. His shop is the place where the VR6specialist from Holland performed all the dyno testings and sometimes the work together for EIP Turbo software adjustments. For the MAF-Tuning you need a DSG-MAF (seems to be the same which is used in US-spec cars, but i´m not sure) instead of the smaller eurospec-MAF, the latest engine-software release for a R32-DSG, as well as for your car and the knowledge, which parameters in the R32-DSG (or US spec) software are responsible for the airflow informations. Than you have to "clone" this parameters to the stock-software in your handshifted eurospec R, add additional adjustments of the ignition timing and you are done. Without "upgrading" the software, you will have NO serious extra power and a cockpit warning-light ON !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme86 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Does anyone know (or care to speculate )whether the "Lemmiwinks" program would be able to adjust these fueling/timing parameters sufficiently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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