commanche77 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hi guys I've been lurking on this forum for a while and now that I'm close to getting a remap I thought I'd ask some (basic) questions - apologies if this has already been covered before. My 06 Gti is due for its 1st service, I thought I'd get this out the way before getting a remap. I was told by the dealer that my car was due for a software update and this got me thinking, if I'd already had the remap, would the software update have overwritten it? How do future VW updates get into the ECU if its been remapped? Any comments greatly appreciated Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Firstly, A Warm Welcome to Tyresmoke . There are others here who know more than I do about remapping but I do at least have experience with the Mk5 GTI. There's no harm in remapping as soon as you like but it's sensible to run your car in for about 1,000 miles and also do a few more thousand to let everything settle. If there's a problem it'll be easier to get it fixed under warranty if before remapping. Also, you'll experience the difference between stock and remap performance. Some VW dealers are totally okay about you remapping (mine is). A good tuner, such as Revo, will check for any VW updates before remapping. Revo, APR, Bluefin, all allow you to switch back and forth between stock and remap - Very useful before a visit to the dealer - NOT to hide it but so that they don't muck up your remap inadvertently. Best to be honest with them - They should be on the same 'team' as you. If you check out the GTI forum you'll find plenty of additional info. Hope this helps (HTH) EDIT: Oh, and do inform your insurance! Important, otherwise your whole insurance could get screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I was told by the dealer that my car was due for a software update and this got me thinking, if I'd already had the remap, would the software update have overwritten it? How do future VW updates get into the ECU if its been remapped? [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately, your remapped ECU will become standard again. I know that Revo will redo your remap for you and not charge you in most cases. I'm surprised your dealer had the decency to tell you about the ECU updates - many don't and just go ahead and flash over the top of your ECU without you knowing, and then say "Oh yes, we applied the newest update to your ECU" as if they'd done you a favour. The ironic thing is the fix in the current ECU update for the 2.0T was fixed by Revo in their remap anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1068 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I know that Revo will redo your remap for you and not charge you in most cases. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto Bluefin. In fact anyone reputable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yep, all posts concerning the Golf GTI are supposed to go in the GTI forum. However, if you're asking about how a remap works then stick around the tuning forum. The engine ecu controls various factors to make as much power as it does, such as turbo boost pressure, fuel injection parameters (start of injection, duration, number of injection cycles per stroke etc.) and ignition timing. What happens when the car is remapped is that the tuner downloads the mapping data from the ecu, optimises and modifies it, then re uploads it to the ecu again. The new map is designed to give a different characteristic to the engine depending on the owners requirements, the tuners mapping, the cars capabilities etc. and each tuning company usually has their own idea of what is best. Their "best" may not be what you want, so suggest trying a few demo cars to decide what sort of result you'd like before parting with your hard earned. Generic maps are "off the shelf" and will be a tuners stock program. Also, you can have a custom remap where the car is fine tuned to your requirements with the assistance of a rolling road or numerous test drives perhaps. Expect to pay more for the work involved in a custom job. VW's update will either overwrite your rewritten code, or will fail to update perhaps, not certain. But if it fails to update then the dealer will either know you've had a remap and be stroppy about your warranty, or will presume your ecu is faulty and exchange it under warranty or try and get you to pay for a new one if it's out of warranty. If you tell them you've had a remap and they're happy with that then you can tell them not to try and update the ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanche77 Posted April 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok, thanks for the comments, it makes alot more sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 A point which seems to have missed above is that with a switchable remap such as Revo's, you do not lose your remap after a dealer service or update - You simply switch to stock before visiting the dealer and switch back to the remap afterwards - You can do this easily yourself. You should also do the same for any work which involves disconnecting the car's battery - Then reload the remap afterwards. In the case of the Mk5 GTI, and especially DSG, your car will take about 100 miles or so to 'relearn' your driving style and get back to its full responsiveness. Also, steer well clear of any tuner who does not limit the torque for a DSG equipped car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] with a switchable remap such as Revo's, you do not lose your remap after a dealer service or update - You simply switch to stock before visiting the dealer and switch back to the remap afterwards - [/ QUOTE ] Robin this isn't quite true, i run the Revo stage 2 software, and switched back to stock before the .:R went in for a service at the stealers and when collecting they informed me that they had updated the ECU with the lastest update, this was 6463 at the time, and version 013. This completly wiped the ECU of my Revo code. But Revo were happy to reflash it for me, also it must be said that for some reason, it may just be my car if left on the Revo software and you have the battery disconnected it messes with the settings no idea why as i have had this aswell and now am ringing Revo tomorrow to speak to them reference this as this is the second time now. HTH in some way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] A point which seems to have missed above is that with a switchable remap such as Revo's, you do not lose your remap after a dealer service or update - You simply switch to stock before visiting the dealer and switch back to the remap afterwards - You can do this easily yourself. You should also do the same for any work which involves disconnecting the car's battery - Then reload the remap afterwards. In the case of the Mk5 GTI, and especially DSG, your car will take about 100 miles or so to 'relearn' your driving style and get back to its full responsiveness. Also, steer well clear of any tuner who does not limit the torque for a DSG equipped car. [/ QUOTE ] Robin I'm afraid you are categorically incorrect there. I was in the presence of a Revo'd A4 2.0T yesterday that had been overwritten by a dealer with a software update. Also, the adaptive ECU has absolutely no bearing on the DSG gearbox as the only map you are fiddling with is the engine map - so there is nothing special about DSG. I would just like to point out that this is a forum of very useful information but unless you know exactly what you are talking about, and you are certain you are correct, please be careful how you phrase things as your words could be taken as gospel truth by another member, especially a new member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 There is a torque limit for the DSG gearbox though, and reports of GTI DSG box cooling issues have been encountered. Specific to the GTI though as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozzerfodder Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Shark, I had my GTi remapped by APS about 2 weeks ago and my own experience is that the DSG behaves quite differently now. If I am driving at normal road speeds in traffic, it now changes up much faster, say accelerating away from 10mph, to 30mph, it goes from 2nd to 3rd to 4th very quickly. My interpretation of this is that the engine is producing more torque at a given engine speed so the DSG realises that based on the current throttle setting, the car can change up a gear. I have read in various mags etc, some quoting VW engineers, that DSG software is optimised to provide the best performance matched to best economy. This perhaps supports my theory that under part load, the DSg will change up earlier as a higher gear leads to better economy. Somebody with greater techie knowledge than myself may correct me here, this is just my interpretation and also experience of how my car behaves differently now it is mapped. Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 The point I was making was that the gearbox isn't remapped (some are) so the adaptive ECU process is nothing to do with the DSG box at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] The point I was making was that the gearbox isn't remapped (some are) so the adaptive ECU process is nothing to do with the DSG box at all [/ QUOTE ] ....Yes, but because the DSG behaves smartly it adapts and behaves according to how the remap is influencing the ECU - So there is a 'knock-on' effect. In other words, a remap will most definitely make a car's DSG different to drive, usually smoother, as several people here have experienced and reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I would just like to point out that this is a forum of very useful information but unless you know exactly what you are talking about, and you are certain you are correct, please be careful how you phrase things as your words could be taken as gospel truth by another member, especially a new member [/ QUOTE ] ....All I can do, and intend to continue to do, is to report and attempt to help others to the best of my knowledge, and that is all anyone can do. Everyone who reads our threads should have the intelligence to realise that no-one's posted info is going to be 'gospel' but can only be offered in the best of their knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] with a switchable remap such as Revo's, you do not lose your remap after a dealer service or update - You simply switch to stock before visiting the dealer and switch back to the remap afterwards - [/ QUOTE ] Robin this isn't quite true, i run the Revo stage 2 software, and switched back to stock before the .:R went in for a service at the stealers and when collecting they informed me that they had updated the ECU with the lastest update, this was 6463 at the time, and version 013. This completly wiped the ECU of my Revo code. But Revo were happy to reflash it for me, also it must be said that for some reason, it may just be my car if left on the Revo software and you have the battery disconnected it messes with the settings no idea why as i have had this aswell and now am ringing Revo tomorrow to speak to them reference this as this is the second time now. HTH in some way [/ QUOTE ] ....An ECU update shouldn't wipe off the remap - I'm assured it will merely switch it off. However, if it did, then, as you already know, Revo would support their product and reload it. With a 'select' box you can easily reload the map yourself and you should always switch back to stock before any dealer work or battery off. That's the usual behaviour but these things can go their own way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] ....An ECU update shouldn't wipe off the remap - I'm assured it will merely switch it off. However, if it did, then, as you already know, Revo would support their product and reload it. With a 'select' box you can easily reload the map yourself and you should always switch back to stock before any dealer work or battery off. [/ QUOTE ] Yes revo did reflash it back on for me, and they have been fairly helpful this afternoon reference my other issue. With the, what im assuming "select" box as you say this doesn't reload the map, this just switches between maps on the ECU, Serial Port Switch (SPS1,2 or3) i have the SPS1 device. The 6463 "update" does wipe the ECU as this is a VW map for the car, i recall a few peeps having to go back to AMD to get them to reflash there maps after having this "update". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would just like to point out that this is a forum of very useful information but unless you know exactly what you are talking about, and you are certain you are correct, please be careful how you phrase things as your words could be taken as gospel truth by another member, especially a new member [/ QUOTE ] ....All I can do, and intend to continue to do, is to report and attempt to help others to the best of my knowledge, and that is all anyone can do. Everyone who reads our threads should have the intelligence to realise that no-one's posted info is going to be 'gospel' but can only be offered in the best of their knowledge. [/ QUOTE ] Well I agree with Shark mate - your post contains bad info. if you're not sure, say "I think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemod Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 The revo map is in the ECU Flash bank along with the VW map so thats why it only takes a few seconds to switch bettween them. When volkswagen do an ECU update the first thing that happens is the Flash bank in the ECU is erased, removing anything that was there and then the new code is programmed. So the revo map will definitely get deleted. This is the advantage of the Bluefin from Superchips. When you get your car back you just plug it in and restore the map without having to go near your Chip supplier. The only problem I see with this is that the original map that I have now stored in my bluefin will be the original and not the updated one. I wonder if Superchips can extract the new VW map and store that in the Bluefin device replacing the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The point I was making was that the gearbox isn't remapped (some are) so the adaptive ECU process is nothing to do with the DSG box at all [/ QUOTE ] ....Yes, but because the DSG behaves smartly it adapts and behaves according to how the remap is influencing the ECU - So there is a 'knock-on' effect. In other words, a remap will most definitely make a car's DSG different to drive, usually smoother, as several people here have experienced and reported. [/ QUOTE ] it's a twin-clutch gearbox ffs not a neural network. how on earth can it possibly be smoother. there's no physical difference made to the metal gear box internals by a remap. what you'll find is the ECU remap changes the boost timings/pressures etc making the acceleration feel smoother.gear changes physically take the same amount of time after the remap and involve the exact same mechanical process. the other people on here that have experienced the changes, have experienced changes due to the remap of the ECU not a modification to the (very simple) AI inside the gearbox. It's like people saying their cars rev lower at 80mph after a remap. how the hell is that possible? (p.s. it's not!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Chav - You misunderstand my post - (I think!) No-one is saying that it modifies the gearshifts mechanically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1068 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 [ QUOTE ] This is the advantage of the Bluefin from Superchips. When you get your car back you just plug it in and restore the map without having to go near your Chip supplier. The only problem I see with this is that the original map that I have now stored in my bluefin will be the original and not the updated one. I wonder if Superchips can extract the new VW map and store that in the Bluefin device replacing the old one. [/ QUOTE ] A little more info on this. I spoke to Jamie at Superchips a couple of months ago about this issue knowing that the ECU flash was on the cards. If your ECU is changed by Audi then the Bluefin unit won't let you change back to the performance map. It requires you to go through the reading and downloading procedure again. You'll be storing the updated code and then uploading that to Superchips, they'll then send you your performance code again. He did say that it would be a good idea to get in touch with them before you upload just so they know what you're up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemod Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Thanks for that Rich, looks like they have it covered then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 [ QUOTE ] If your ECU is changed by Audi then the Bluefin unit won't let you change back to the performance map. It requires you to go through the reading and downloading procedure again. You'll be storing the updated code and then uploading that to Superchips, they'll then send you your performance code again. He did say that it would be a good idea to get in touch with them before you upload just so they know what you're up to. [/ QUOTE ] ....Don't you need a 'Bluefin' piece of software installed on your computer? Does this work for those who use the Mac platform and not Windows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1068 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 [ QUOTE ] ....Don't you need a 'Bluefin' piece of software installed on your computer? Does this work for those who use the Mac platform and not Windows? [/ QUOTE ] You do get a CD-ROM with the handset that has the upload software on it. Windows only I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 [ QUOTE ] You do get a CD-ROM with the handset that has the upload software on it. Windows only I'm afraid. [/ QUOTE ] ....How did I guess. Thanks for the info though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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