MkV GTi

[xspencex 0]

For £24 K i'd look at the 350Z... its in a differet league, I rekon a lot of people would also like the Mazda RX 8 as well... What are VW trying to do by pricing its GTI so much higher than the rest of its direct competitors?

[Smudge 4]

Was at the local Stealers this morning to sort a few bits on the R this morning & picked up a brochure. VW seem to have forgotten to make the interior (dash mainly) a little more sporty looking than the standard MkV.

Ooops!!

[RossG 0]

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Its a £20K car basic, thats for a quality German mid sized hatchback that has 200hp and will reach nearly 150mph!

It isn't cheap, but it never set out to be a budget model. For what it is I don't think it is too bad.

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Does the fact that it is German mean that it can automatically be priced higher than many other cars.

Remember back to when the Civic Type R was first launched. I distinctly recall commentators thinking that that was a fairly expensive car .

I really want to know what is going on - and precisely who VW think they can take for a ride with this one. I can't help but wonder if the MINI Cooper S' success (and the amount of options that people pay for on it) has had soemthing to do witht he price of the GTI?

Look at some of the 200bhp, 4 cyl competion:

Leon Cupra R - £18000

Megane 225 - £20000 but NO BODY pays any more than £18000 (I am considering one and have done some barganing with dealers)

Civic Type R - £17000 (with ac)

IMHO VW are taking the .

The thing that really gets to me is that punters will pay this. Sure it is a good car, and it has a lot of cachet - but come on - 20odd thousand pounds?

It is another example of 'marketing' and 'fashion' playing havoc with the prices that we have to pay for our cars.

It sickens me - just because peeps with more money than sense will buy a GTI because they think that its cool (oh and it shows that I can be flippant and off hand with money - thus making me look rich...)

£17.5K would be an ideal value starting point for the Golf GTI - given its equipment etc.

Oh yeah, and the guess is that £17 - 18k is what the next Skoda Octavia vRS will cost. Badge or not - that is where my money would go.

[xspencex 0]

Its nice to know you feel quite strongly about this Ross... Are you home sick again?

[Ari 0]

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Does the fact that it is German mean that it can automatically be priced higher than many other cars.

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Generally, yup!

Simply because German cars tend to be better built and higher quality of finish.

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Remember back to when the Civic Type R was first launched. I distinctly recall commentators thinking that that was a fairly expensive car .

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People buy it though, and it's not a patch on the Golf in terms of style, or interior quality.

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I really want to know what is going on - and precisely who VW think they can take for a ride with this one. I can't help but wonder if the MINI Cooper S' success (and the amount of options that people pay for on it) has had soemthing to do witht he price of the GTI?

Look at some of the 200bhp, 4 cyl competion:

Leon Cupra R - £18000

Megane 225 - £20000 but NO BODY pays any more than £18000 (I am considering one and have done some barganing with dealers)

Civic Type R - £17000 (with ac)

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I think you've just proved my point!

Loaded up MINI Cooper S for £28K or a specced up Golf GTI for £24K?

Megane 225 in basic spec for £20K or brand new model Golf GTI for exactly the same money (no wonder Renault dealers are keen to knock off £2K, good though they are they're never sell them for the same money as a Golf GTI are they!?)

Lean Cupra R for £18,000. Good car, but the old platform, the old 1.8T not the superior new 2.0T FSI, got got the image or cache of the Golf GTI, I'd pay another 10% to get the new Golf and smile whilst I was doing it.

And thats before you figure in residuals (which are historically excellent on the Golf, and set to only be better on the new one). Put it this way, you buy a Megane 225 for £18K and sell it after three years and I'll do the same with a Golf for £20K. I bet it'll have cost you more to own the Megane than it'll cost me to own the Golf.

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IMHO VW are taking the .

The thing that really gets to me is that punters will pay this. Sure it is a good car, and it has a lot of cachet - but come on - 20odd thousand pounds?

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You've said it again, people will pay this.

If you were selling a range of cars and knew people would pay £20K for it, what price would you put on it?

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It is another example of 'marketing' and 'fashion' playing havoc with the prices that we have to pay for our cars.

It sickens me - just because peeps with more money than sense will buy a GTI because they think that its cool (oh and it shows that I can be flippant and off hand with money - thus making me look rich...)

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I don't think the Golf has a massively "up market" image. People that bothered by the badge on the grille will buy an Audi A3 surely? It's a Volkswagen at the end of the day, not a Porsche.

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£17.5K would be an ideal value starting point for the Golf GTI - given its equipment etc.

Oh yeah, and the guess is that £17 - 18k is what the next Skoda Octavia vRS will cost. Badge or not - that is where my money would go.

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Well there ya go, buy a Skoda. Personally I'd cheerfully pay another couple of grand for a brand new model Golf GTI thats as raved about in the press as this one seems to be.

[TP27 234]

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Personally I'd cheerfully pay another couple of grand for a brand new model Golf GTI thats as raved about in the press as this one seems to be.

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Listen to the voice of reason guys...Ari is talking sense. If you look at the marketing of the MkV Golf GTi, it's targeted at the enthusiast and likely an enthusiast that's had a GTi (Mk 1 to Mk1V) before. To them, putting down say £10k in cash and funding the rest on HP will not hurt. This car will sell in droves to the 35 to 45 year age group AND younger folk but with all the rave reviews it'll sell like hot cakes. If you own a Porsche/Merc SL/BMW M5 and the like and you want a weekend hatchback for fun, you'll buy the MkV GTi just for the hell of it. VW have been very canny here me thinks

[Mollox 0]

Remember why the MK1 was such a revelation. It was a genuinely affordable supercar-slayer and a pioneer at that.

Not quite the same these days is it? Don't get me wrong, its desirable alright. But it IS overpriced. For me its probably not 25k desirable.

[TP27 234]

Yup, I believe we all uniformly accept that but I still suspect the wider public/enthusiast will still clamber to buy one......I may be wrong though...time will tell. TP.

[Mollox 0]

I don't disagree. However, when the Clio Cup is delivering similar if not more thrills for 13K OTR can Volkswagen really justify 11k more for a decent interior, 18 ponies, a little more room and a "peoples' car" badge?

It just makes me sad more than anything.

[RossG 0]

You've got me Ari - I was just spitting my dummy and letting off some steam

I still stand by it though - mid size hatchbacks should not cost more than about £18k - unless they really offer somehting different and desirable - R32/147 GTA/Focus RS/S3 for example.

The only point I don't agree with you on is the one about German cars being better build and of a higher quality fit and finish. There are good and bad examples of all marques.

Seriously though - if the Skoda comes along next year with the same chassis and the same FSI 2.0t engine, priced at £17k - would you still choose the VW? Most people would - and its because there is a perception (whether or not we think it) amongst the public that VW is a prestige brand.

Fair enough that VW capitalise on it and charge accordingly - thats business. I am just letting off steam that I don't think £20K is an acceptable entry price for a GTI. It is a far removed from the GTI ethos as the MK IV was from the MK I in terms of 'fun'.

I also wonder where it is leading VAG with Audi and how they structure/charge for the A3. The way VAG are going at the mo, either Audi or VW is bound to lose out at some point.

And remeber that the Megane is 222bhp. I agree it is probably not as good a car as the Golf - but it is significantly more powerful - and my £18k figure will get me leather, xenon and upgraded stereo as well. Add that to the Golf and your already at arounnd £22k. That's £4k of a difference. That's a lot of depreciation to make up as far as I see it. Plus the car is rarer and (big time IMHO this one ) looks better!!

Hope you don't think Im being rude at any point - wouldn't want to fall out with anyone being a newbie and all

Cheers,

Ross.

[Mollox 0]

And before you say it, you show me another car on sale today thats closer in spirit to the original GTi than the Clio Cup

[TP27 234]

Autocar's verdict this week suggests that anyone thinking of buying a MkV GTi should at least drive the Clio Cup first. As you say, £13,800 is a stack of dosh less that £19,995 for the Golf. I quote :-

"how refreshing to know that real value for money is alive and well. And the proof comes in a small, simple package, with a small, simple word on each door : 'Cup'".

Autocar, 7 December 2004, p 55.

[DaddyDub 0]

From what I hear the MK 5 build quality is much higher than the MK 4, I know this is no great excuse to bump the cost up, but this is a highly desirable motor. I would pay the higher price for a motor that I know is going to hold it's value when I come to sell it and the fact that your bound to find someone to buy it off you that is a passionate about it as you are. From what I hear the GTI is well worth the money you pay for it.

[Mollox 0]

And the thing I like is - its £13,800 plus not a lot of options.

The golf lures you in with a sub 20k sticker price but if, for example like me, you don't want the shortbread tartan interior you're nudging 22k before you've even sat in it!

On the flip-side, yes the Civic Type R appeals to the hooligan in me and I recently went in one for the first time. I agree entirely about the +/- of VTEC but what struck me was, unfortunately, how "low rent" the interior was. It was bare and IMHO atleast 2 or 3 leagues below that of the S3.

So maybe thats why they're so "affordable" and why specced up VAG cars are heading for 30k

[Mollox 0]

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From what I hear the MK 5 build quality is much higher than the MK 4

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Lets hope! This is a condensed list of the grief I had with my MKIV:

"Rear windscreen wiper motor failed. Twice in first 6 months.

Leak from Aircon into Footwell

Leak from Aircon via central vents

Window regulators - 2 in 5 days (£350!!)

Window regulators - driver's side failed 53 weeks later

(Goodwill)

AND AGAIN (Driver's Door)

(Goodwill)

Crack in relay box - wouldn't start

MAF Sensor replaced

Flywheel replaced

Clutch-release bearing screeching

Creaking door locks (perennial)

Both main headlight bulbs failed within 10 months (not a warranty issue apparently!)

Light in boot stopped working - microswitch problem

Excessive smoking (lol) god knows what they did to fix that"

[RossG 0]

Yeah thats a fair point.

I test drove the Civic last weekend. I was driving (fairly quickly) and not concentrating on the interior etc. MrsRossG banned the purchase because she hated the style/colour of the interior.

Wouldn't have said it was badly built though - not by a long shot. Just didnt have the air of 'quality' that seems to be part of the VAG ehtos. TBH - my fabia probably has a nicer interior.

[DaddyDub 0]

Yeah, I think VW have noticed that there recent model line up (mk 4 Golf mk 5 Polo etc) were not "as reliable as a Volkswagen" and have acted on it with the MK 5 Golf, and forthcoming Bora and Passat models.

[TP27 234]

Buying any VAG Group car provides a wide variety of options, either Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda. What is clear is that less and less people are worried about either buying or being seen in a Skoda. Price is the determining factor at the end of the day but through the entire range, quality appears to be improving......however, Inigo's list of woes might alter that comment!!

[Mollox 0]

Shame I paid for that realisation out of my own pocket really. Again. And Again.

[Ian_C 420]

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IMHO VW are taking the

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Original A3 T Sport was £19,000 back at launch and that didn't have air con, cd or leather. GTi is a bargain is you keep a cool head and avoid the options list. Obviously some must haves like those wheels and pearl, but sunroof and leather at that price?

Ian C

[RossG 0]

I guess this is where I really sound like a hypocrite and say that Audi can probably support higher prices because it actually is a prestige brand.

All IMO of course

[Mollox 0]

Don't forget the S3 used to be 27.5k and that was BEFORE any options and BEFORE they facelifted it and threw in ESP so they're no strangers to taking the piss!

At that original rate plus my options mine would have cost over 31k in the UK

Good job I got it for 24

[RossG 0]

27K

I didn't know it was that expensive.

Hmm, I think I should refrain from any other comment about VAG prices

[xspencex 0]

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Good job I got it for 24

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Yes but don't you have trouble at toll booths?

[Ari 0]

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I don't disagree. However, when the Clio Cup is delivering similar if not more thrills for 13K OTR can Volkswagen really justify 11k more for a decent interior, 18 ponies, a little more room and a "peoples' car" badge?

It just makes me sad more than anything.

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I don't understand the comparison with the Clio Cup. Sure, its quick, but its a tiny French car.

And if you must compare a French car with the Golf it should be a Megane as Ross was saying surely? The VW Polo is Clio sized, and thats cheaper than a Golf too.

I'm sure the Clio provides similar performance and pace, but a Caterham is as quick and agile as a 911, no one ever moans about the price of a 911 being too dear "because you could buy a Caterham and thats just as quick and as much fun".

The truth of the matter is that the Golf GTI will be bought as an alternative to a basic 3 Series, not instead of a specced up Clio.

What the Golf has (and what makes it worth the extra) is all the performance, but as well as that it is a good place to be sat when you're in traffic, it's quiet and comfortable on a long journey, its as safe as anything that sized in a crash (what would you rather be in in an accident, a Golf or a Clio), it (should) last and maintain its quality over many miles and years.

Long time ago I had a MKII Golf GTI and I LOVED that car because it was every car in one. It was a hatchback shopping trolley when I went to Tescos, it was a refined comfortable long distance cruiser (used to go to Liverpool and back in noe hit in that car!), it was a quality item that made you feel good with everythingt you looked at or touched. And the icing on the cake, it was a responsive and fun sports car on the right road when in the mood.

It was about £12K back then (1991) and replaced a base model Peugeot 309. And although it was dearer than a 309GTI the quality of the car was in a different league. Plus, after 70,000 miles the 309 felt worn smooth. After 80,000 miles the Golf felt exactly the same as the day I picked it up.

I replaced the Golf with a second-hand Honda Prelude VTEC, all the bells and whistles, over £20K new so a lot dearer than the Golf, and within a couple of weeks I thought "what the hell have I done?" Sure the Honda was quicker and had all the toys, but it felt cheap inside and out compared with the Golf.

I believe (from what I've read/seen) that with this new Golf VW have finally got back to what the Golf GTI was all about when I had mine. A classless, high quality, high performance, classy, quality, comfortable, wonderful car.

And sure, it might be dearer than other cars which, on paper, appear similar. But if they really have recaptured the magic formula then it really will be worth every penny.

Proof of the pudding is, if I couldn't have a soft top and I had £20K to spend on a car tomorrow, then with the possible exception of the A3 I honestly can't think of a car I'd rather have for the money.

Forget Clio Cups, the Golf GTI is for someone who would have bought a 318i and gives them the opportunity to have a fun drive without sacrificing the quality, image and comfort of their Beemer.