RS4_Barry Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are tons of FWD cars out there that outhandle the R32 admitedly none come from the VAG stable. Integra type R anybody? [/ QUOTE ] Yes but do they have all the same qualities the R32 does? Are they safer? Riz [/ QUOTE ] Pah who mentioned safety - I thought we were talking about the handling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are tons of FWD cars out there that outhandle the R32 admitedly none come from the VAG stable. Integra type R anybody? [/ QUOTE ] Yes but do they have all the same qualities the R32 does? Are they safer? Riz [/ QUOTE ] Pah who mentioned safety - I thought we were talking about the handling! [/ QUOTE ] Yes but its all relative, no point having a car that handles well, but when its pushed over the limit it doesnt respond and crashes..... Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS4_Barry Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 [ QUOTE ] If you drive an R properly, the 4 wheel drive is in constant use and works a treat. [/ QUOTE ] Erm no actually if you were driving an R32 properly the car would only divert a sizeable amount of power to the rear wheels when you got into bother / launched the car from a standstill. Haldex was a design to allow a transversly engined car have limited 4wd capabilities for minimal cost. It is also set up the way it is to allow greater fuel economy by running almost entirely front wheel drive unless traction is loss in which case it diverts some power to the rear. It is a very effficient system none the less with only minimal transmission losses (60bhp compared to 100+ on a proper 4WD vehicle) this allows lesser powered engines such as the 20VT or 3.2V6 to still maintain a healthy power at the wheels figure meaning that acceleration etc is not affected as much as minimal power is lost through the transmission. Next time you are on the motorway and drive through some standing water look out for the haldex wiggle as you can feel it dumping some power to the rear as you loose traction at the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are tons of FWD cars out there that outhandle the R32 admitedly none come from the VAG stable. Integra type R anybody? [/ QUOTE ] Yes but do they have all the same qualities the R32 does? Are they safer? Riz [/ QUOTE ] Pah who mentioned safety - I thought we were talking about the handling! [/ QUOTE ] Yes but its all relative, no point having a car that handles well, but when its pushed over the limit it doesnt respond and crashes..... Riz [/ QUOTE ] Ever thought of advanced driving courses then...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR32 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Off topic? Yes indeed. Done the IAM test and an intensive Police driving course so hopefully can drive but I put my hands up and admit you know more than me Gareth! Still think the R is a fast, stable, chuckable, grippy and very safe car and I like it a lot. Dad had three Quattros (the originals, the last was a Treser) and he rates the R above them, so it can't be bad. Will try the GTI and then form an opinion when I have actually tried it. My "rule" is, over 200bhp and it must be RWD or 4... I mean AWD. FWD struggles over 200bhp and I don't actually rate the ITR all that highly despite it's sweet handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Sorry if I came across as slightly anal with the detail yesterday. Its just that as users and mods alike we have certain responsibility to other registered users and anonymous browsers alike to try and ensure we're as accurate as possible with technical facts. In this case it perhaps wasn't life threatening but we should also remember that when we state things categorically on here, someone may well assume the statement to be entirely correct and act upon it. We could have been talking electrical, brakes or something else very serious Tyresmoke is and should remain a technical point of reference for many people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I know what you mean about 200Bhp going through the front wheels isn't good. Its far from ideal, I do have a lot of trouble getting power down in very wet conditions and occasionally when its damp. But this is all a part of driving the car and knowing its limits are and what it can and can't do. I had an A4 Quattro before and it was great at putting the power down, but in handling terms it was a stodgy mess, extremely poor as a driver’s car. The A3 Sportback is probably similar to the GTI in many ways and I have to say it handles very well (Not tried a GTI just yet). It just seems to ride the bumps just as you expect and want it to. Steering feel is great even though electric systems are meant to be rubbish and no the engine is not singing V or straight 6 but it really does sound very good, better than an S3 that’s for sure. Some cars excel in certain areas, with this engine and an undeniably well developed chassis they really have made a great series of cars, be that Audi or Golf GTI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Matt if you've done those courses and a few tracks days too I am sure you are a peachy driver....far be it for me to ever cast a doubt on any man's ability to drive well Cheers, Gareth. p.s. inclined to agree with your 200bhp for FWD argument 100%. Gotta be RWD for a real car experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chins Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Is it the power or the torque thats the problem? - why do they call it torque steer I wonder!! My soon to be ex Accord Type R has over 200bhp and doesnt suffer from a poor driving experience, but then its not blessed with high torque levels. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Personally I think it's more to do the chassis' ability to deploy the torque, than just maybe too much torque... mk 5 GTI is about right IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are tons of FWD cars out there that outhandle the R32 admitedly none come from the VAG stable. Integra type R anybody? [/ QUOTE ] Yes but do they have all the same qualities the R32 does? Are they safer? Riz [/ QUOTE ] Pah who mentioned safety - I thought we were talking about the handling! [/ QUOTE ] Yes but its all relative, no point having a car that handles well, but when its pushed over the limit it doesnt respond and crashes..... Riz [/ QUOTE ] Ever thought of advanced driving courses then...? [/ QUOTE ] No offence but every car has a limit! so it doesnt matter what wheel drive you have or how good a driver you are, if you push it then the risks are higher.... Its a simple concept of logic really..... Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR32 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Riz - Nice sig! Higher limits are more fun. Predictibility on the limit is more fun and safer. IMO it has to be AWD OR RWD for proper fun and I think the R does drive train efficiency and grip/safety very well. Gareth - No claims to great abilities but hopefully slightly better than average. IMO a good driver realises they have weaknesses and tries to improve ll the time. A poor driver thinks they are great and cannot be taught anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I know what you mean about 200Bhp going through the front wheels isn't good. Its far from ideal, I do have a lot of trouble getting power down in very wet conditions and occasionally when its damp. But this is all a part of driving the car and knowing its limits are and what it can and can't do. I had an A4 Quattro before and it was great at putting the power down, but in handling terms it was a stodgy mess, extremely poor as a driver’s car. The A3 Sportback is probably similar to the GTI in many ways and I have to say it handles very well (Not tried a GTI just yet). It just seems to ride the bumps just as you expect and want it to. Steering feel is great even though electric systems are meant to be rubbish and no the engine is not singing V or straight 6 but it really does sound very good, better than an S3 that’s for sure. Some cars excel in certain areas, with this engine and an undeniably well developed chassis they really have made a great series of cars, be that Audi or Golf GTI. [/ QUOTE ] You just have to try a 147 GTA or Focus RS to experience the perils of torque steer for your self, it is not an enjoyable experience exiting a round-about, not gripping for all your life (as you do in the R), put the power down, then go in whatever direction the car wants to. With the Focus RS all you have to do is go in a straight line, put the power down, wait a few minutes for the turbo to kick in then the steering wheel is wrenched out of your hands. Anyway back on topic, even thought the GTi is front wheel drive and turbo powered, I have been told it does not suffer from torque steer, or turbo lag. But we shall see, test drive is in an hour and a half! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 How was the test drive? Collect our new GTI tomorrow afternoon now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephV6 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Just thought I would post my impressions after the testdrive of the new GTI. It was following an argument on the interiror finish on another forum and it is in part in comparison to the audi A3 3.2: " all right, just finished the test drive with the dealer It was fun, long and I could drive it as I wanted and here are my comments on the car in comparison to the 3.2: I'll start with the interior as it what the argument is about: I maintain 100% that the finish is not even in the same league as the new A3. Yes it is well screwed together and feels solid but the A3 is so much better finished. I mentionned that to the dealer and he agreed and even said : "well, it's just not an Audi". And I am not talking about the style as this is down to anyone's taste. Stereo was simply average. The bose unit in the 3.2 was damn much better seats felt better in the golf engine I am gonna get flamed for this but I did not like it (there we agreed with the dealer). But I need to stress that it's down to personal preferences and I'll explain: it is a very good mix between NA and FI but sadly you dont get any of the good things about those engines. Yes you have good torque and good throttle response at low rpm but nowhere near what you get from the 3.2. Yes you dont have lag from the turbo but you dont get the shove that puts a grin on your face. It fbasically feels like a powerful VTEC engine that dont rev to 9000rpm. but despite being a turbo you can get to 7000rpm and it still pulls (very nice surprise) TBH I think it's a very good engine but not to my taste. Under the bonnet it is neat and tidy with lots of room..... Noise is very good for a 4cyl but no comparison with the 3.2 gearbox simply loved it. Much better and sharp than the 3.2 handling very good and a bit more feed back than the 3.2. The car feels more neutral than the 3.2 but I missed the quattro as I nearly always got the FW to spin when out of a tight corner. But that's more likely to be due to my poor knowledge of the car(on that note, I was thinking that a chip would do the engine some good but then the handling could suffer) Also on the roads I used a lot recently at high speed (90mph is enough for me) the golf felt better planted than the 3.2. I think the suspension is simply better You also dont notice the weight as much as the 3.2 exterior Liked it but a bit too understated at the back (same with the 3.2). But what's those false mesh grill under the headlights, with only 3 "real" holes???? conclusion the golf gti is a very very good hot hatch in the way Glen describes it, but I feel the competitor (ford, vauxhall, honda) will overtake it Also not a competitor to the 3.2 as they do different things I would take the 3.2 again as it's more powerfull and more fun (yes ou read well) but I would change the coilovers PS: I would recommend this dealership (Citygate Chalfont) or at least this salesman Lawrence. Very nice chap who knew his motors (certainly more than me). Also he wanted to show me that I was wrong about the engine so we swaped seats after 1hour and about 100m down the road all lights on dash lit up with a loud bip so we stopped and came back worrying though " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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