Planning a thorough detail before full correction

[JonC]

...but I need some advise, please chaps. My car is going in for full paint correction at the end of April - I'm going to help out Dave KG and he's going to show me the ropes with machines. Before then I want to have a go at protection again. In December, the car was subjected to winter protection. My question is, can I now, 3 months on, think about repeating the process? The process I would plan to follow would be:

Snow foam and wash in the usual fashion

Clay - I have the Megs lube which came with the kit, but which is best?

Cleanse, but with what? Klasse?

Collinite 467 x 2 coats

When would I use AG UDG or EGP within these stages? (I have some so might as well put it to use) Do I need to/should I incorporate them with the stages mentioned above? When would I apply a glaze or sealant? Sorry for the many questions, but I'm looking on Elite Car Care and getting very confused with what to do for the 3 monthly-type detail. I'm fine with regular maintenance, but there again, if I'm using 467s, do I top up with that or other products? If so, which is best?

What I need is a better understanding of the stages, what to use and why. My apologies again for the lengthy and needy questions, but your help, as ever, would be gratefully received

Jon

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Hi JC, perhaps others might be able to offer better advice so don't rush out there in the dark tonight to get cracking just yet!! ...but I would have taken the following steps for a protection detail:

Snow Foam

Wash - 2 bucket method

Clay (Megs lube should be fine but use liberally to keep well lubricated)

Wash again & dry

SRP or UDS (Both similar but I think SRP fills swirls a little better. UDS looks wetter but not too important if waxing on top anyway imo)

Wax after application of SRP / UDS to seal in fillers - 476s 1 or 2 coats 12 hours apart ideally

I would personally miss out the Klasse stage as I think the clay will probably suffice. Perhaps others may advise you better here?

476 is extremely durable so you would only probably need to QD every now and then after washing to restore the shine, although you could top up with Dodo Red Mist type sealant product or similar now and again for added protection & extra bling.

If I remember correctly Dave KG polished your car with Menz 106FA which removed most minor swirls in Nov time? Unless there are many visible you may be able to get away with just waxing after the claying without polishing.

The stages should be as follows:

• Wash & cleanse the paint
  
• Polish
  
• Sealant / Glaze*
  
• Wax
  

* Some prefer to apply a sealant after polishing rather than a wax, or you can choose to apply both (sealant) first then a wax on top. Generally you shouldn't apply a sealant on top of a wax as it just wouldn't be able to bond to it.

There is also the option of adding a glaze after the polishing stage but before the wax stage. This can sometimes offer a bit more wetness to the finish. I personally feel that if the correction / polishing has been done well then the shine / depth should be there without the use of a glaze.

I hope this helps and hasn't added to the confusion!

[steelwind101]

Looks like TT has this covered!

On a personal note i would use your UDS and top with 476S. I would not bother with the Extra Gloss, save that for the wheels!

One thing i would say, not that its important here but often on DW they talk about not needing a glaze. Many people, including myself who have done comps. or shows do use specific glazes for certain finishes. I do understand that some people not use after polishing on certain finishes; it saves time a sometimes glazes are bonuses for certain looks.

However if you see a detailer switching back to HD Cleanse or Cleaner fluid, they are both heavy oil glazes.

Things like Red Moose Machine Glaze enhances pearl and metalics beyond polishing as Yellow Moose can create awesome depth.

Not really relevant in your case, but that is one of my nagging points!

Geoff

[JonC]

Hi JC, perhaps others might be able to offer better advice so don't rush out there in the dark tonight to get cracking just yet!! ...but I would have taken the following steps for a protection detail:

Snow Foam

Wash - 2 bucket method

Clay (Megs lube should be fine but use liberally to keep well lubricated)

Wash again & dry

SRP or UDS (Both similar but I think SRP fills swirls a little better. UDS looks wetter but not too important if waxing on top anyway imo)

Wax after application of SRP / UDS to seal in fillers - 476s 1 or 2 coats 12 hours apart ideally

I would personally miss out the Klasse stage as I think the clay will probably suffice. Perhaps others may advise you better here?

476 is extremely durable so you would only probably need to QD every now and then after washing to restore the shine, although you could top up with Dodo Red Mist type sealant product or similar now and again for added protection & extra bling.

If I remember correctly Dave KG polished your car with Menz 106FA which removed most minor swirls in Nov time? Unless there are many visible you may be able to get away with just waxing after the claying without polishing.

The stages should be as follows:

• Wash & cleanse the paint
  
• Polish
  
• Sealant / Glaze*
  
• Wax
  

* Some prefer to apply a sealant after polishing rather than a wax, or you can choose to apply both (sealant) first then a wax on top. Generally you shouldn't apply a sealant on top of a wax as it just wouldn't be able to bond to it.

There is also the option of adding a glaze after the polishing stage but before the wax stage. This can sometimes offer a bit more wetness to the finish. I personally feel that if the correction / polishing has been done well then the shine / depth should be there without the use of a glaze.

I hope this helps and hasn't added to the confusion!

Thanks for the detailed response, TT. Yes, very helpful. Thank you Just so I can get this right in my mind, after washing and claying, and time was no object as I'm doing this all by hand until I'm up to speed on the machines, I would:

Klasse All-in-One Polish & sealant (1)

Polish with SRP or UDS (2)

Sealant OR Glaze (3)

Wax (LSP I presume?)

(1) But this stage can be missed out as the claying should suffice

(2) Which other polishes would you recommend I try?

(3) Does the sealant help bond the LSP, and a glaze purely adds shine? Do I apply either or can I apply both? What sealant and glaze would you suggest I try? Dod Red Mist for the sealant?

Questions, questions, questions! I just need to get it right and feel confident that I'm doing the right thing, so your help and advice is always appreciated

Just checked, Dave KG used Menz Final Finish PO85RD to remove some minor swirls.

This is such a healthly obsession/hobby for someone with OCD's and a addictive personality!!

[JonC]

Looks like TT has this covered!

On a personal note i would use your UDS and top with 476S. I would not bother with the Extra Gloss, save that for the wheels!

One thing i would say, not that its important here but often on DW they talk about not needing a glaze. Many people, including myself who have done comps. or shows do use specific glazes for certain finishes. I do understand that some people not use after polishing on certain finishes; it saves time a sometimes glazes are bonuses for certain looks.

However if you see a detailer switching back to HD Cleanse or Cleaner fluid, they are both heavy oil glazes.

Things like Red Moose Machine Glaze enhances pearl and metalics beyond polishing as Yellow Moose can create awesome depth.

Not really relevant in your case, but that is one of my nagging points!

Geoff

Likewise, Geoff, thank you for your input; helpful as ever What glazes would you suggest that I can apply by hand (not experienced enough to take a machine to my car yet).

I presume you're suggesting a glaze after polishing and before waxing? Would you apply a sealant after the glaze and before the wax as well?

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Thanks for the detailed response, TT. Yes, very helpful. Thank you Just so I can get this right in my mind, after washing and claying, and time was no object as I'm doing this all by hand until I'm up to speed on the machines, I would:

Klasse All-in-One Polish & sealant (1)

Polish with SRP or UDS (2)

Sealant OR Glaze (3)

Wax (LSP I presume?)

(1) But this stage can be missed out as the claying should suffice

(2) Which other polishes would you recommend I try?

(3) Does the sealant help bond the LSP, and a glaze purely adds shine? Do I apply either or can I apply both? What sealant and glaze would you suggest I try? Dod Red Mist for the sealant?

Questions, questions, questions! I just need to get it right and feel confident that I'm doing the right thing, so your help and advice is always appreciated

Just checked, Dave KG used Menz Final Finish PO85RD to remove some minor swirls.

This is such a healthly obsession/hobby for someone with OCD's and a addictive personality!!

1) Correct, as far as I'm aware

2) There are a few different polishes which you could use other than the Autoglym ones. The only one I have tried is Clearkote Vanilla Mousse Hand Glaze (the name is misleading as it is not really a glaze but similar to SRP in that it contains fillers to hide the swirls). I think others will have more experience of alternative polishes.

3) A wax would bond to your paint fine without adding a sealant beforehand. I have used a sealant before waxing with a view to adding to durability. However, if you're using Colli 476s then that is extremely durable on it's own.

Just to confuse the situation, you can just buy pure glazes which just add gloss / wetness. However, there are some glazes like Clearkote Red Moussing Glaze (RMG) which also contains fillers to mask any pesky swirls.

I don't think you would need to really use a sealant and a glaze as well then wax but possibly others might disagree.

Dodo Red Mist is not a 'proper' sealant. It's like a 'protection detailer' spray and is designed to be used on top of your wax (LSP) to occasionally add to the looks and durability. It offers limited durability and is a little confusing as sealants generally don't bond to waxes, but there are some new types like these that do!!

I think Geoff or others will be able to better recommend a good sealant. I only have experience of Autoglym EGP. A lot of folks seem to like FK1000.

[JonC]

Thanks for tyring to explain, TT. It does get confusing, especially with products such as Klasse High Gloss Sealant! Dave KG used Klasse All in One Polish & Sealant after claying. I think my confusion is with the sealants and glazes and when to use them and how to use them

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

An interesting reveiw posted by Dave KG regarding cleaner polishes including Klasse AIO:

** Swirl Removal By Hand - Test ** - Detailing World

[JonC]

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read through to see if it sinks in!

[JonC]

Ok, I think I now have it (it's taken a while!) From what I can see and have been advised, the process I will follow for further paint protection will be:

1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Polish (SRP)

4. Klasse all-in-one (cleaner and sealant- optional)

5. Sealant (optional)

6. Wax

I'm going to ignore a glaze altogether. I've read that they work well on some colours more so than others, so with my metallic steel grey, it wouldn't create such a dramatic wet look as it would on solid colours, such as brilliant red etc.

Any recommendations for sealant?

For maintenance thereafter, I'll stick with what I know. The idea of the sealants and glazes threw me. I think that's it - got there in the end

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

I'm not sure that you'd need the SRP if you were to use the Klasse. As far as I'm aware they do a similar thing (both cleaner polishes). Then again, I may be wrong! Where's Geoff when you need him eh?!

[steelwind101]

Where geoff? Dusting pollen off his car, like a snow drift had fallen on it today!

SRP and Klasse All In One are similar products, i would not use both.

SRP will fill more the Klasses and offer more correction (all though on a low level). The AIO product is very good at tidying up dirty paintwork, that isnt swirled just neglected.

If your thinking of using Klasses Sealant Glaze then you will need to apply Klasses All I One first. To behonest and fair, i would not advise you purchases Klasses Sealant Glaze.

It is a durable product but its very old school and not that user friendly. It needs to be applied in a thin coat and its a pain to buff off. You can purchases the same product (or atleast similar) from Clean your Car badged as Carlack Long Life Sealant, it still has the same issues.

Personally i would buy Jeff Werkstatts Arcylic Jett Trigger. Its an advancement on the old Klasses Sealant Glaze (same product but improved) its spray on, wipe off version. Its SO SO good and only costs £14 from Polished Bliss. You will see Werskstat Prime which is there version of Klasses All In One, again same product slightly changed for ease of use.

I think your paintwork is similar mine to this cars dsms detail - Subby STi Limited 238/800 - Autopia.org as you can see Werkstatt creates the same "candy coated" look you would get from Klasses Sealant Glaze. The finishes pics are at the bottom, its not my work.

Your car is going in for a full detail, the spray Werkstatt would be great for maintenance afterwards if you are getting a sealant applied.

I think my Lancer is a similar colour to your Golf, but mine has more metalic. I do use glazes but only when im topping with "looks orientated wax". If your going to go with Collinite just stick to SRP > Collinite.

Glazes do not work with the Klasses twins, not really anyway. And Klasses Sealant Glaze isnt a glaze, its just a missues of terms (bloody germans!).

I cant wait to see pics of the car after its had the KG treatment! The lessons in how to use the polisher will be valuable in future.

Geoff

[JonC]

Geoff, would you use the Jeff Werkstatts Arcylic Jett Trigger after polishing or instead of a glaze? What stage is it for? The metallic steel grey on my car is similar to your Lancer and the Sti in the link, but maybe a touch darker? You saying a glaze would work well?

I'm booked in on 23rd May with Dave for a full correction detail, which I'm really looking forward to. At least in will be warmer in his unit then than it was in December!

[steelwind101]

Hi Jon

Werkstatts Arcylic Jett Trigger is your last stage protection. It is applied after Klasses All In One or Werkstatt Prime.

Werkstatts Arcylic Jett Trigger is a last stage protection, it is the dedicated sealant for protection and looks.

I would not say using a glaze with the Klasses/carlack/Werkstatt system.

I would glaze on that colour, specifically with Red Moose Machine glaze as it enhances metalic pop if i were going to top it with Victoria Wax Red or Supernatural or something of that order.

Between now and the full correction i would skip on the glaze and any expensive waxes!

Geoff

[JonC]

Thanks, Geoff, that makes sense. I've got plenty of Colli 467s, so will get some decent protection down. There's still 2 months of Scottish "spring" ahead of me before the full correction! Actually, the car isn't bad at all. Upon inspection with the sun gun, there were some areas of micromarring and hologramming, and some light scratches, but nothing that wouldn't come out. I'll get some piccies up after the end of May session