Finding correct pad / polish combination

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

A nice morning so I decided to wash, clay, wash again, dry and machine polish to try to establish the correct polish / pad combination.

I decided to work on the lower half of the bonnet and split it into two halves to keep the work area small.

I initially started with a light / finishing polish on a Megs finishing pad. I put 5 small pea sized blobs on the pad and spread on speed number 1. Once properly spread I upped the speed to no.3 and worked for about another minute or two. I then upped the speed further to 5 and sometimes 6 and polished the area (approx 12" x 10") for about another 10 mins until the polish was clear. Working under the halogens helped me see much clearer how the polish was breaking down and removing any defects (or not) - well worth the £19.

The chosen finishing polish produced a great glossy finish but there were still one or two slight traces of swirls. I decided to step up to a polishing pad using the same finishing polish. I selected a Menzerna orange polishing pad - quite a hard pad for a polishing pad I thought but it did seem to break the polish down quicker than the finishing pad. Unfortunately, this didn't really offer the level of cut I needed for this hard paint.

However, I didn't realise until later in the morning when I was packing my stuff away, that I had actuallu been using the PO85RD finishing polish - I thought I had been using the 106FA which offers a little more cut!!!!!

I was a bit annoyed with myself as I had tried to undertake everything with military precision.

As the PO85RD finishing polish wasn't quite offering the level of correction I wanted, I stepped up to the PO85RD 3.02 which is a medium cut polish. With the Menzerna orange polishing pad this seemed to correct the paint properly. I then followed up with the PO85RD finishing polish (which at the time I thought was the 106FA!) to really bring a great glossy finish to the paint. I have to say, that with my amateur eye,I couldn't really see any greater improvement from finishing down with the PO85RD finishing polish after the PO85RD3.02, but I knew it ought to be done and 'should' offer a small improvement.

So, I guess that despite my 3 hours work this morning, I still haven't found the correct polish / pad combo. I'm hoping that the 106FA on a polishing pad will offer a single polish solution to fully correct the paint. We'll see!

Oh and one other slight problem I had was that the pads seem to pick up adhesive from the 3M blue masking tape. This was a bit of a sod to remove from the paint even with Menzerna Top Inspection spray! I'll take more care next time.

Here are some pics:

Didn't get much off with the clay - this was from the inside of the wheels which was the worst area. Bodywork wise it felt like a bit of a waste of time although I needed to remove existing wax etc. Despite using absolutley loads of clay lube (Megs last touch diluted 50/50) I did notice some very slight marring on a small area of the drivers door. I do sometimes think that on a relatively clean car, a chemical paint cleaner may be the best way to go sometimes.

Before polishing (there are some very minor swirls but not that visible)

and a couple of 'after' pics....

I also took several paint thickness readings and wrote down the results on to a blueprint sheet of the Golf, before and after correction. On average I think I removed no more than a couple of microns at the very most so happy with that.

I may get a chance do a little more of the upper bonnet with 106FA tomorrow evening - at least I hope so!

Phil

[steelwind101]

Hi TT!

The lights turned out great! I know that Ahaydock is a big user of the Menz Polishes, he might know a good combo. It does sound like you got to weak of combo, i dont know how much bite the Menz pads and polishes have together. I generally use the Meguiars ones and really anything less the polishing pad isnt going to do any correction.

If you have deep scatches or swirls you might need to do a two step, but if you get the deep worn down very well with one polish, you can always go back and hit the area again with te same combo.

Yeah it dident look like you needed much of a clay! There is always a risk though with machine polishing that if you dont clay the chemical cleaners in the polish and spining pad will take off that little bit of tar or bonded crust. The machine then quickly makes a point of pushing it against your paintwork .

I hope it goes better tonight and you get the results your after.

Geoff

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

I tried the Menzerna 106FA. Whilst it is still a finishing polish it definitely has more bite. It removed most swirls in one hit but did require a 2nd hit for some defects. The Menz pads are smaller than the megs ones and apparently much firmer. I believe the Menz polishing pad is sometimes compared to other brands compounding pads! Although Menz do also offer a firmer compounding pad. The firm pad seems to break down the abrasives quicker and required less pressure than a finishing pad, although being a small pad, you have to ensure good control of the polisher when on full grunt. As it is still a polishing pad, the pad itself does not seem to marr the paint in any way. I've found bigger softer pads like the Megs finishing pad and the red Sonus finishing pad to be easier to use from a handling the machine point of view (stability).

Typically, the only pad I wished I had but haven't is a Megs polishing pad!

Bonnet done now and as far as I can see I have achieve 100% correction. Roll on Friday and some dry weather maybe?

[steelwind101]

I hope the weather holds out for the long weekend! It sounds like you got a good combo, personally i think the best pad is the Megs Polishing pad. Whether it is specifically good for certain situtation i dont know, it just the pad i like to use the most!

[JonC]

Bonnet done now and as far as I can see I have achieve 100% correction. Roll on Friday and some dry weather maybe?

Well done you, must be hugely satisfying Here's hoping for some decent weather this weekend

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Cheers guys

Typically, the forecast is looking a bit iffy over Easter. Fingers crossed for a couple of half dry days at least.

[wyliss]

Well Done TT. I may be following your lead soon when I get my Megs G220 !

Polish of choice is Menz but I'm unsure re which pads to buy.

Any help re pads guys appreciated !

[steelwind101]

Ahh, yes well with 4 days this weekend atleast 1 of them must be good?!

Dibbs, Meguiars pads are favorite and the Soft Buff 2.0 you can put in the washing machine with your MF's! If you have not purchased your pads or polish yet there are often deals matching both together. Sonus, Lake Country (esp. the CSS) are good.

Geoff

[wyliss]

Geoff thanks for the reply. I was wondering about the Megs pads but I'd prefer the Menzerna polish. I suppose I may have to buy them separately..........

Next up is the best way to use the Megs G220 or really how...............??????????

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Hi Dibbs, my Kestrel DA polisher came with four 250ml Menzerna sample polishes and Menz pads. I bought a couple of finishing pads (Megs & Sonus) but these don't offer sufficient correction on my VW paint with the Menz finishing polishes. Like Geoff advises, most seem to rate the Megs polishing pads. I probably will buy some at some stage in the future but for now the Menz pads have done me fine.

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Dibbs, this is a useful guide

Machine Polishing by Dual Action Polisher - Full Guide - Detailing World

I downloaded the pdf and printed it off.

[steelwind101]

Also, buying pads and polishes that are popular combinations means it will be easier for people to help you get the best results!

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

So annoyed....part way through polishing this morning with the Kestrel DAS6 and crunch....the thread completely went on the backing plate and damaged the thread on the polisher at the same time. I was very lucky that I didn't do any damage to my wing.

I'm not sure why it happened. It definitely wasn't cross threaded and it was tightened securely. Neither was I applying any pressure.

Anyway muttered a few choice words like dam & blast before drinking a cup of fine english tea

Contacted supplier Cleanyourcar.co.uk who suggestd I should send it back directly to Kestrel for repair. Can't do anything until Tues though now.

I even took an extra day holiday off work Tues to get an extra coat of wax on etc. Boo hoo! :mad:

[steelwind101]

TT This is super mad news, sorry to hear that. Atleast the pad dident rip or you caught the paint anything. I thought if you purchased something from a retailer then you could go via them for a replacement for the first 12 months?

Sale of Goods Act 1979 - Goods must be of Satisfactory Quality, As Advertised and Fit for Purpose. If they are not, it is up to the Retailer to sort out the problem, not the consumer or the manufacturer.

Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers 2002 - If a fault appears on an item within 6 months it's up to the Retailer to prove it wasn't present or inherent at the time of purchase, otherwise the consumer can claim refund, repair or replacement at their discretion.

Personally i would get on the phone to clean your car and say hey! Get me a new one in the post and get the courier to pick this broken one up when he drops it off.

Its not up to you sort out the repair mate.

I hope you get a new one soon enough and make something of your extra day off! I would lend you my G220 but we are bit to far apart.

Geoff

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Thanks Geoff

CYC are phoning me on Tues so i'll have a chat.

I strongly suspect that the thread on the backing plate was very slightly undersized (or the nut on the Polisher oversized) causing slight movement through vibration and wear to the thread. I'm just pleased (and probably lucky I didn't damage the wing.

Thanks for your kind offer to lend me your G220 -as you say though were a bit far apart

Anyway, the weather isn't great so hopefully new machine and better weather by next weekend perhaps?

[JonC]

It's very lucky you didn't damage your paintwork, TT. Hope you get a replacement and soon!

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Quick update on the polisher...things got off to a slow start because CYC twice failed to return phone calls as agreed. I sent the polisher myself back to Kestrel yesterday (CYC offered to refund postage) and I called them today to confirm receipt.

Kestrel were brilliant. The guy there said that they received it midday and they have already repaired it. They suggested that the backing plate was most probably to blame - thread perhaps very slightly too small / fine. They said that the backing plate isn't the one which Kestrel supply with the machine but one which CYC supply. Anyhow, Kestrel have replaced the shaft in my machine and said that it is ready to be collected by their courier Monday and should be with me Tuesday. They have also given me a new backing plate of theirs even though they didn't apparently supply the original one. Great service by Kestrel

[CarMad]

Sounds like a good ending then.

I've been thinking of getting one myself from CYC I take it they don't do any TSN discount codes.

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Unfortunately not although I believe Elite Car Care offer a bit of discount if you enter the code 'TSN' at the checkout. You get 'loyalty points' when you buy from CYC which can add up quite nicely to buy extra bits now and then. Although CYC were a bit slow to respond over my broken machine, their service prior to this has always been excellent. I worked out I've spent almost £500 with them in the past 2 years

[CarMad]

I spend a fair bit but not that much, too many other gadgets to buy as well I guess. :D

[OGWT]

These diminishing abrasive polishes are foam pad ‘dependant’ as far as its paint correction / renovation abilities are concerned and require friction to ‘breakdown’ and for this reason they are best suited to a high-speed rotary polisher; remember to use the least invasive product first before ‘stepping-up’ to the next abrasive level.

(a)White primary (softer less dense foam (70 PPI) with a light abrasive cutting action ) LC CCS foam pad

(b) Followed by a secondary Blue finishing (very soft 100 PPI) LC CCS foam pad

[Tarmac_Terrorist]

Hi OGWT,

I purposely bought a DA polisher as it's a safer option plus a rotary would require more practice on scrap panels etc. I am only a novice / enthusiast working on mainly my own cars and my immediate family so thought a DA would be more user friendly. I would certainly consider a rotary though if I did it for a living as it would save so much time!

I found that the slightly firmer / smaller Menzerna polishing pads definitely offered better / quicker correction than softer ones. As you say, I guess more friction with these pads.

Phil

[OGWT]

Pad size

With smaller pads you gain increased control and manoeuvrability. Smaller pads generate more friction (heat) with a PC, which breaks down polishes by generating energy over a concentrated area. The random orbiting motion of the PC generates the most power in the centre of the pad (i.e. area of a 6.5 – inch pad is 33 – square inches compared to the area of a 4 – inch pad, which is 12.5 – square inches) This additional cutting power will facilitate the removal of deeper imperfections

The opposite is true with rotary buffers. The speed of the outer edge of a smaller (radius) pad is slower than that of a larger (radius) pad. This helps reduce the amount of friction generated, which makes polishing tighter areas much safer.

[wyliss]

Ahh, yes well with 4 days this weekend atleast 1 of them must be good?!

Dibbs, Meguiars pads are favorite and the Soft Buff 2.0 you can put in the washing machine with your MF's! If you have not purchased your pads or polish yet there are often deals matching both together. Sonus, Lake Country (esp. the CSS) are good.

Geoff

Geoff,

Just had a quick look at the Megs pads and they do seem quite good. Would I be correct in saying that to apply a glaze or sealant etc as my LSP I'd need to use a 'finishing pad' ?.

On the subject of compounding pads would you say these are for quite severe swirling?. My car is in pretty good shape, obviously it has the odd swirls etc but I am unsure whether to use a compounding pad really incase its too much cut if you see what I mean. Maybe the polishing pad will hit the spot ...........

Any help appreciated. Cheers Geoff.

[steelwind101]

Hi Dibbs

It all depends really on what brand of polishes you intend to use.

When i have used Menz in the past i have used the Megs Polishing pad with FFII and SIP. The Red megs pad is very aggressive, and i would say use with caution. Worth having one, does anyone use the weaker Menz polishes with a cutting pad?

Aggresive pads tend to and/or aggresive polishes tend to leave alot micro marring. As long as your swirls are not deep you should be ok with the polishing pad combo.

I just have things in my mind such mild swirls the odd nasty bit:

Step 1) Medium cut polish on polishing pad

Step 2) Finishing/weak polish on the polishing pad.

I would test everything first as each car is different. I have always thrown caution to the wind "a bit" knowing all my cars will only get "maintence" polishing once they have been corrected. Id rather get them sorted then go around the car seeing bits here and there that mean a whole panel needs to be polished again. Im sure thats bad, but i dont think im the only one!

As for the finishing pads, they would be for the LSP and some glazes. Some glazes and paintwork cleaners also go on with polishing pads.

Geoff