Chri5, you'll like this...

[Milo]

My then 9 year old showed all the signs of being a spolied brat at the back end of last year. Like most kids these days, he has a vast armoury of techie gadgets - mobile, DSi, PS3, iPods etc. Most were bought for him (because we can and want to) or were gifts and some he contributed to with money accumulated through Christmas and birthday gifts as well as the loose change I dumped in money boxes.

One day though he lost a few DS games in the house and I was getting wound up as they were ~£30 each and he was completely indifferent. His response to me badgering him to find them was a roll of the eyes and something like "calm down, I'll just buy some new ones."

Red. Rag. Bull.

It was clear he had no concept of money nor the value of things and his train of thought was simply to buy his way out of problems with money that kept appearing in his money box. So everything changed from that day.

Now he gets pocket money every week in exchange for doing some very easy (to him, very hard) jobs around the house so he feels like he has earned it. And out of that he buys what he wants whether that's apps, itunes, football/Top Gear cards, computer games etc etc. At first he thought he was rich as the regular pocket money is a lot more than he had ever had but then he soon realised PS3 games can be £40 a pop, mobile phone top ups aren't free, football cards are a waste of money and everything has a value.

Whether it was the age we caught it at I don't know but the results were immediate and to his credit, his attitude changed almost overnight.

He now wants an x-box, why, I have no idea but there you go. But he's now saving half his pocket money every week until he can afford it which means going without some things he'd like to spend it on.

He's now getting very aware of fashion and Superdry gear is all the rage (mainly because the sizes are so small it's the only 'label' most 10 year olds can fit especially if they get women's stuff!). He recently bought a Superdry coat for £55 with his own money. Strangely, when he comes home it's the only coat I've ever known him hang up rather than throw on the floor in the hall.

A basic lesson learned hopefully.

I still drop loose change into money boxes to top things up but nowhere near as much as I used to and never overtly.

[Calm Chris]

I'm heartened by all the comments and it good to know that parenting problems are far from being unique to my situation.

Life for an 18 y.o. is 2010 is a world of difference to my 60's / 70's childhood, but the fundamentals haven't changed. Why is asking for respect, consideration, manners such a unachievable goal for young adults ?

Well I don't have the answers, but suspect it's simply an off chute of giving them so much that they end up thinking it normal to have what they have got without applying personal effort.

I come from a generation that knew we had to earn and save for treats and rewards. I bought a £165 moped for my 16th birthday saved from 3 years of paper rounds and hard farm working ever summer holiday (hours 04:30- 16:30). Daily wage was £6

My son was given £800 cash, a V4 I-phone on contract (£300 + £720 for 2 years), a £500+ party. This in his eye is 'normal' so maybe I have no one other that myself and wife to blame for his attitude.

When I was 18 I lived I a 7' x 10' bed sit and with commute did 12 hour days in the City for £140 a month. I was ecstatic, happy to be in charge of my own life and goodness they were some of the best times of my young life.

As an aspect of modern life and working to the unmentioned rules of improvement we have gone the extra mile to make sure the kids have all they want.

Every year a decent holiday, every 3 years a fantastic holiday (West Indies, Aruba, Egypt etc). New PC's and laptops, broadband, TV's and phones in bedrooms. Meals out weekly, takeaway weekly, treats constantly etc.

They got things I didn't, again this is my fault- all be it a natural reaction and one that I'm sure most parents aspire to do for their kin.

So is the lesson that we should deny kids the trappings of modern family life and install an ethic of work = reward ?

I'm not sure what the answer is, other than time, patience (and the hope that maturity comes quickly) and keeping a health distance with respect to support so they have both a need and desire to grow up.

Time will tell

[NewNiceMrMe]

How were you when you were teenagers?

How much grief did you give your folks? (MrMe and Chri5)

Oh I had my moments.

However, nothing like this.

I certainly knew how to wash up and wash a shirt and iron it. I would stay at home at 16 for 2 weeks whilst my parents went away in their caravan and they'd have no qualms about it - nor do I recall there ever being any bad events for them to come back to.

I didn't get anything of any note materially. They didn't have the money and life was always a struggle for them in truth.

I came in drunk plenty of times, falling over the doorstep at 3am having forgotten my key, that kind of thing.

But there was nothing of any major note to be honest.

[NewNiceMrMe]

That wasn't me main post of this for today. I wish it was.

Last night, after the brief relapse, it became evident nothing has changed.

The comment, out of the blue, "I don't really want to come now" (on holiday).

"It's a hassle, I'll have to come back on my own on a 12 hour flight and then I have to get up here from Heathrow". Then "It's just not worth it".

I (I am proud of this, though some will find that difficult to understand) walked out and went and sat in the garden. At 11pm. I smoked 3 cigarettes in a row, put the cover on the trampoline, tidied a few toys up and generally did my best to stop myself having a cardiac arrest.

MrsMe joined me 20 minutes later.

This "it's not worth it" is 5 figures of not worth it. MrsMe told me how she'd told her that in no uncertain terms and that if she didn't want to come she could find the money to give us back - or maybe we'd sell her car to recover her part of it.

I could tell she had done too - mainly because I could hear bits of it from outside.

The posts of Milo, Dave and Andrew, and others, are all very relevant. They're all right in different ways in my opinion. I wish we'd caught her at the age Milo sounds like he has one of his. Alas, nope.

I wish Andrews comment of going off to Uni would apply too - because in our case she'll be staying at home and commuting the short distance to Uni from here. Otherwise I think that might have sorted a few things out.

Daves comment about them working for him was interesting too. Because of the lack of interest we got from her on that matter we actually looked at buying a coffee shop (of all things). For her to run. To be honest the costs were too high for where it was and the return wasn't going to be there. We said nothing to her so I don't know what the response would have been. In retrospect we wouldn't look at it again, mainly because I am now of the view we shouldn't be having to try to create opportunities beyond those that have already been offered and are good ones.

I should really be excited about buggering off on the holiday of a lifetime, but I'm dreading it. I suspect I shall trot off with LittleMissMe and go snorkelling for most of the day or play in the sea/pool etc. It's the evenings I dread. Maybe it'll be different to what I'm expecting. I so hope so.

Edited July 29, 2010 by MrMe

[Andrew]

It could be worse mate, you could be about to embark on a two week holiday with the ex missus who turns on the water works at any given opportunity about "the situation".

Actually, maybe that is better.

[Milo]

Andrew/MrMe - I'm not shy when it comes to blagging free holidays. I've always got an overnight bag at the ready

[NewNiceMrMe]

It could be worse mate, you could be about to embark on a two week holiday with the ex missus who turns on the water works at any given opportunity about "the situation".

Actually, maybe that is better.

Yeah but think of all the extra shags you'll get as a result of her turmoil.

That's awful, I know.

[Dave]

Sympathy shags are always good, it's just the after-sh1te that spoils it.

[eldavo69]

Depends where she does the aforementioned sh1te!

[cruiser647]

There is a program on now on BBC 3 about 'Adulthood' and spoilt kids.

I think it will make you look at your kids in a different light! These ones are completely spoilt and just need a beating or 2...3, maybe 4.

[AntW]

I read all this, Mrme you must have the patience of a saint, I was expecting "I went outside and kicked the trampoline about"

It is obvious you care a lot about your family, and hopefully one day she will realise what a great dad you have been. Or you could be like this...

(yes I know they went to hospital etc, but that last photo is a belter)

[cruiser647]

I read all this, Mrme you must have the patience of a saint, I was expecting "I went outside and kicked the trampoline about"

It is obvious you care a lot about your family, and hopefully one day she will realise what a great dad you have been. Or you could be like this...

(yes I know they went to hospital etc, but that last photo is a belter)

Off topic, but what a lovely but evil fish those Barracuda are!

[Andrew]

No sympathy sh4gs for me - I'm just going to hit the gym and get a tan ready for a full female assault once back.

[NewNiceMrMe]

No sympathy sh4gs for me - I'm just going to hit the gym and get a tan ready for a full female assault once back.

Pah, liar.

p.s. I have started to reply to your PM three times and then got distracted, I will get the full reply to you eventually!!!!

[Andrew]

Hah - cool. And no, my integrity will remain intact ... I'm a stubborn b4stard ...

[Tipex]

Yeah but come on, a shags a shag, if it's handed on a plate, why wouldn't you?

I mean, she can't be that ugly, you've done her before!

[Andrew]

LOL. All I'll say is that the booze is all paid for. Who knows. Not sure your mantra of "she can't be that ugly, you have done her before" rings true - jeez, I can remember (just) some hounds.*

*sincere apologies to lady TSN viewers - just stupid boy talk.

[pontyslapper]

This is going to seem a bit strange, but its along the same lines (ish)!

Our 2 year old is in the throws of potty training. Started a few months back as her little friends were slowly coming out of nappies - her choice. She'd advance in fits and starts.

Then we'd decided to hit Disneyland Paris this summer (as she's free!), so we happened upon a plan - use the trip as the big 'prize' for successful potty training.

What a result - she's jumped over just using the potty and then having the toilet training to just using the toilet - potty is on hand in her room for night-time or 'emergencies'!

Don't even need to take the junior seat out with us as she 'can hold on herself' when using the 'big' toilet'.

In the entire rejigged potty training event of about a month - only 2 accidents, one of which was down to the wife being a bit slow off the mark!

Sometimes - a big 'prize' is just the motivation our little squirts need! Long may it continue. So in just over 2 weeks she will be experiencing the magic of Disney.

The funny part is she tells everyone - 'I'm wearing knickers for Disneyland Paris, do you wear knickers for Disneyland?'

[Dave]

The funny part my wife tells everyone - 'I'm wearing knickers for Disneyland Paris, do you wear knickers for Disneyland?'

Edited for accuracy! :D

[Calm Chris]

Sometimes - a big 'prize' is just the motivation our little squirts need! Long may it continue. So in just over 2 weeks she will be experiencing the magic of Disney

That's precisely what caused my problem. From 0- 17.75 y.o. he got everything he needed, some as rewards, some simply as essentials such as the TV, Broadband, Games Boxes etc.

So come 18 the little darlings feel it's 'right' to be expectant, demanding and selfish.

Spare the rod, spoil the child

[Dave]

Totally agree Chris,

but the flip side is that you want your kids to experience everything that you/I didn't. It's very difficult to get the middle ground.. easy with hindsight of course, but when you live day to day, it's very difficult to be hard on your kids.

[Calm Chris]

I would not have withheld anything I've be able to give my children, not one thing.

What I may have been better of doing is making them appreciate it more.

Buying basic items and getting them to fund upgrades might have been better as with hindsight the only thing I feel he has no comprehension of is an understanding of work ethic, need and desire.

Well hopefully 3 years of being away from home at Uni will give him that.

Results due in 2 weeks and that will lay a much clearer road path.

Mum and Daughter off on holidays today, so the next week is going to be fun

[saab]

Going away to university certainly sorted me out. My parents were not particularly generous with gifts etc but that didn't stop me from being age 17 and 18 absolutely obnoxious. I hated the sight of my entire family, I felt completely misunderstood and got at the whole time and I was desperate to move out of the family home as soon as I could. It was a huge relief to me, and no doubt to everyone else, when I shipped out to a university 250 miles away. I grew up very quickly indeed and was much happier, I had the space that I thought that I needed and generally had a whale of a time. There was no time or place for a sulky child there and I happily left that side of me behind. I hope that happens for your son.

And MrMe although your daughter is going to uni locally is there any reason why she couldn't go and live on campus?

[CarMad]

but the flip side is that you want your kids to experience everything that you/I didn't. It's very difficult to get the middle ground.. easy with hindsight of course, but when you live day to day, it's very difficult to be hard on your kids.

I got plenty as a kid but wasn't spoilt but something happened with a business my parents run that one year money was pretty tight to say the least.

So I got a bike for Christmas that year, that I put £100 in and my parents £70 (I got other little presents as well), do you know what it was still in great condition 10 years later; because I'd paid some of my money towards it and enjoyed it and looked after it more as a result.

It helped me understand that if I want other things like that I needed to work hard to get them and the enjoyment of doing that was more gadgets and toys etc. if I did, it wasn't going to always be given to me. It certainly worked for me.

[NewNiceMrMe]

I would not have withheld anything I've be able to give my children, not one thing.

What I may have been better of doing is making them appreciate it more.

Buying basic items and getting them to fund upgrades might have been better as with hindsight the only thing I feel he has no comprehension of is an understanding of work ethic, need and desire.

Agree with every word of that.

We had another 'moment' this week when one of her friends had been told her parents wouldn't give her money to go on a holiday in September. MissMe's response was to tell us the story about how awful it was of her friends parents because they'd said she had to get a weekend job to pay for it and sort herself out.

We both, almost like a choreographed pair, said "What is so wrong with that, if she can't pay for it she can't go...". We received the response that it was "Grossly unfair because everyone is ENTITLED to a holiday."

We're off in a couple of days. Wish me luck.

Edited August 6, 2010 by MrMe