Haye VS Harrison

[billy2shots]

Cant see anything on here so may aswell start something.

Haye is the obvious choice and im sure most people who know anything about boxing would pick him as the winner. Likewise i think he will win but cant help thinking Haye hasn't been tested at this level, he has been knocked down at cruiser weight but got up to win. His fight with Valuev was a bit of a joke as Valuev was so big and slow he couldn't hold on and make his size count. Ruiz has alot of heart but is/was just a mobile punch bag.

I dont class Harrison as a good boxer but think he will make it harder for Haye than his other heavy weight bouts so far and theres always a punchers chance.

Now the difficult decision is do i stay home and spunk £15 on the fight or go out and watch it in town and end up spending more. Its sods law that if i buy it the fight will last a couple of minutes and if i dont it will be epic. Trouble is i have got a massive headache from playing football and having to header about sixty balls today so dont think a skin full will go down too well.

Opinions and predictions please.

Haye by TKO in the fourth.

Ps Mani Pacau fighting on sky sports from midnight needs to be sky+'d

[Calm Chris]

Haye will win, but I can't see this being a quick finish fight.

Both fighters have the ability to surprise and all that takes is a moment off guard........

I rather hope it will be a true classic, I read the reason they don't get on anymore (they used to train and spar) was to do with someone one upmanship when a certain Lennox Lewis was watching the sparring way back when.

8th round, towel thrown due to facial injury !

Edited November 13, 2010 by Chri5

[Maxyboy]

I've ordered it, 15 bucks, and now going to the pub to watch it too!! Go figure.

Haye to win.

Or bout stopped when an air ship collides with and damages the venue roof during round 5.

[billy2shots]

Hayer will win, but I can't see this being a quick finish fight.

Both fighters have the ability to surprise and all that takes is a moment off guard........

I rather hope it will be a true classic, I read the reason they don't get on anymore (they used to train and spar) was to do with someone one upmanship when a certain Lennox Lewis was watching the sparring way back when.

8th round, towel thrown due to facial injury !

IMHO they are both hamming it up to give the impression of hate towards each other and sell more tickets. If you get Lennox's opinion on it he says it was just a normal session. They were good mates when they boxed for team GB and i bet they will respect each other after the fight.

[NewNiceMrMe]

I follow boxing avidly. By avidly I mean that I will watch any boxing whatsoever and I record all of it to watch when it is most convenient.

I can't recall the last PPV I didn't watch and I regularly pay for HBO fights or Primtime only fights online and stream them.

It is, without question, my number one watched sport. Even above Footie. If I had to choose, football would lose every time.

Tonight is a joke. It shouldn't be happening. It's a money maker and nothing more. Audley Harrison is best known on boxing forums (Eastside being the main one for the real fans) as Fraudley Harrison. The man has no heart. The first time someone connects with him, he wants out. He is a blight on British boxing and an embarassment to the sport.

David Haye had no real choice but to take this as I've said on here before. The Klitschko's want to tie him into 2-3 fight contracts and he wants to retire next year, so as a money making deal this was a no brainer.

However, I have to take issue with your comments about him never really being tested at this level. He hasn't been tested because people find it difficult to get near him and cope with his hand speed. Valuev was a problem for the sport that a lot of people avoided because of his sheer size. Bear in mind that David Haye fought him with 1 hand for 11 rounds. He broke his other in the second round and had no choice but to be coy for the rest of it - but even then he almost toppled him. I have no doubt he would have KO'd him if he had both hands available.

Ruiz wasn't a top class opponent, I agree, but he had beaten Holyfield, Rahman and Tucker in his time. He wasn't a mug, he was a slugger with a lot of heart. However, his comments at the end of the fight told everyone what every other opponent of Haye has been saying for years - he is an immensely hard puncher. Forget size, he punches harder than most others at any weight. I am convinced he will batter Wladimir Klitschko if that fight ever happens. Vitali is a different matter because he can match Haye on power.

Haye's record, regardless of few fights at Heavyweight, should never be questioned. He is a former undisputed Cruiserweight champion. The only other fighter than can claim that in recent years was Evander Holyfield, and he'll go down in history as one of the all time greats. He is blisteringly quick, punches astonishly hard and he is a very savvy man indeed.

Now, on to Harrison and why this fight shouldn't happen.

As you probably know, he was 1 minute away from defeat, having lost every round before the final one, when he pulled out his sucker punch to KO Sprott. Prior to that he had to resort to the Prizefighter tournament against a bunch of names that most people other than die-hard boxing fans will have never heard of. He cost the tax payer £1m of BBC money with his disgraceful tailored 'rise' before the Beeb pulled the plug on the contract. He is, single-handedly, responsible for terrestrial TV stations in the UK being so wary of putting boxing on their schedule. He actually accused the BBC of pulling the contract because he was black.

He ducked Sprott in 2004 when Sprott was still a half decent boxer. He did so to fight a then unknown Dutch fighter. He did everthing he could to prolong the real tests and pocket money. The likes of Barry McGuigan had already started to call him a coward when his true capability was exposed.

He then lost to Danny Williams - a completely over the hill Danny Williams.

He then lost to Dominick Guinn - a man than everyone in the sport viewed as a journeyman and a fight Fraudley was taking for an easy ride.

He then had a rematch with Williams and beat him. Anyone who watched that fight will know that their mum could have beaten Williams that night.

Then, finally, he fought Sprott. He was KO'd by Sprott. This was for the European title, we'd not even started to get to the level of fighters Haye has faced.

Then, after a win over another unknown, he was beaten by irish Taxi driver and part-time boxer Martin Rogan.

He was rightly humiliated by the press and boxing world alike, and told to go get a proper job where he wouldn't be robbing the paying public of their hard earned cash - because Fraudley has become very adept at doing that.

Then he won Prizefighter, a tournament boxers turn to when they have nothing else left, and he beat Danny Hughes - but again people should remember he was probably going to lose that until the last 2 minutes.

So, then Sprott came back on the scene, and completely outboxed him for 12 rounds until succumbing to a sucker puncher in the last. I felt for Sprott, he didn't deserve to lose to such a chump.

Now he's got his chance. He shouldn't have it. He only has it because Haye realllllly doesn't like him (Chri5, it isn't an act - Haye really does despise him. He'll give him credit at the end when he's pummeled him, but there is no love for Harrison from Haye or any other 'real' heavyweight) and because the Klitschko's won't play ball.

The fight will be a travesty.

Haye will obliterate him. Harrison could be in danger of very serious injury.

The first time he feels a Haye punch, he'll wish he'd never opened his mouth. He'll then cover up and Haye will pick him off for 2-3 rounds, if he decides to. Make no mistake at all, this fight will end when David Haye decides to end it. It is the biggest boxing certaintly I can think of in recent years. If Haye wants to finish it inside the first round, he will. If he wants to give people a bit of entertainment (which he has indicated he may do), then he'll take him out between 7-9.

One thing that wont be happening is Harrison winning.

The Pacman fight is an interesting one. Again it's a fight that shouldn't really be happening because Margarito should have been banned for life. The step up in weight is a big one for Manny although if Roach is to be believed he is on top form and ready. If that's the case, expect him to have the cheating scumbag out of there within 6 rounds.

This generation of welterweights is to be savoured. I doubt we'll ever get a decade with two elite fighters like Mayweather and Pacquiao around at the same time. If it wasn't for them, Hatton would have been the pound for pound champ, no doubt about. He just timed his prime to be in an era when two absolutely astonishing fighters were at the fore. On that note, I don't think we'll ever see them in the ring together. Mayweather could be in prison before long if the IRS get their way and by that time Pacman will be in congress in the Phillipines. He won a seat recently and Roach fully expects him to give boxing up before too long. It's a crying shame, it really is, because that is the one fight I wouldn't want to predict. The ultimate boxing expert in Mayweather versus the powerhouse that is Pacquiao. It could be anything. First round or split decision. God only knows - but I'd love to see it.

Edited November 13, 2010 by MrMe

[billy2shots]

I agree with alot of what you said MrMe but have different opinions on the following.

-Holding 3 of the 4 Cruiser weight belts does not make him or anyone else an undisputed champion.

-Yes Harrison did lose to Sprot and Williams but then beat them in a rematch. Your older than me and may remember better than me but didn't Lennox Lewis lose to Rachman but then beat him in a rematch?

-It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. A 12th round knockout still counts as a win.

-The likes of you and me will never know what was in the Klitschko's contract all we hear is the two different sides of the story, but if Haye really wanted to fight one/both he could. You better believe there is a clause in the contract so if Harrison wins tonight he has to fight Haye again.

-Harrison is not single handedly responsable for the lack of boxing on the BBC or ITV. That would be the fact they can not compete with the money making power of box office events. That and they like to pay millions to crap presenters and spend £1.99 per year on live sports.

- Haye will NOT make the fight last longer just for fans entertainment, that would just be stupid and risk getting caught by a lucky punch. If he wins late in the fight Haye may claim that is what he did. It would be like Manchester UTD taking it easy and not scoring too many just to make the game more entertaining.

-Im sure everyone on TSN has heard the name Fraudley and you forgot A-Farce not just "real boxing fans" on some internet site.

Dont get me wrong i am no Harrison fan, and i used to be a massive Haye fan. That was untill Haye came out with his Gang rape joke, IMHO that was way out of order. Harrison could have gone to town in the press about that if he was such a bad person as you make him out but he just let it drop and didn't fan the flames even when the media pushed him.

I also dont think its right that Hayemaker productions can dictate when Harrison had to arrive in England, what media work he has to do and what hotel he has to stay at (i know he moved to a hotel of his choice this week).

Lets just hope its a good fight and not over in 1, so we get a little moneys worth.

Edited November 13, 2010 by billy2shots

[NewNiceMrMe]

I agree with alot of what you said MrMe but have different opinions on the following.

-Holding 3 of the 4 Cruiser weight belts does not make him or anyone else an undisputed champion.

Okay, so I'm presuming you follow boxing - and in that case you would know fine well that Cunningham was a farce. The only reason he didn't fight him was because it was a total waste of time and he had bigger and better things. The Ring ranked him No.1 in 'Champion' position and The Ring also considered him 'undisputed'. That is enough for most fight fans.

-Yes Harrison did lose to Sprot and Williams but then beat them in a rematch. Your older than me and may remember better than me but didn't Lennox Lewis lose to Rachman but then beat him in a rematch?

Lewis fighting Rahman is completely different. Leagues apart. When Lewis was beaten by Rahman he was already proven. It was also known that he hadn't been well and he should have probably withdrawn from the fight - but he was still winning it. When he fought Rahman in the rematch, he positively annihilated him.

What he didn't do was pull a complete fluke in the rematch - which is what Harrison did against Sprott. Against Williams, it was something no viewer could have found particularly good to watch because it was evident from the start Williams was in no condition to fight. The comparisons just aren't there. Lewis was a reigning world champion with nothing much to prove and in the ring with a quality opponent. Harrison wasn't, isn't and never will be.

-It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. A 12th round knockout still counts as a win.

Very true, as Carl Froch well knows. However, the boxing fraternity will give you 1, maybe 2, and be generous if they're against quality fighters. Harrisons wasn't and he had been so comprehensively beaten it was robbery.

-The likes of you and me will never know what was in the Klitschko's contract all we hear is the two different sides of the story, but if Haye really wanted to fight one/both he could. You better believe there is a clause in the contract so if Harrison wins tonight he has to fight Haye again.

Sorry, but that's completely untrue. It is public knowledge now because Chisora has said so. You're also missing what I'm saying - a rematch clause is something Haye would accept, he's said that. However, that isn't what the Klitschko's do. The contract was (as I say, it's public knowledge now), 50/50 purse split but they wouldn't fight in the USA (which Haye offered to do as neutra ground). It had to be in Germany (their home ground in fights). Secondly, if he beat Wladimir, he had to give him a rematch - fair enough. However, there was no rematch clause for Haye - why? He is a reigning champion. Even then, that's not what stopped the fight. What stopped it was that the clauses said this:

- beat Wlad, must fight Vitali within 3 months

- beat Vitali, must take Wlad rematch within 3 months

- beat Wlad again, must refight Vitali within 3 months

- lose at any point - Haye would get no rematch and in EVERY fight it'd always be in Germany

He would have been an absolute mug to sign.

-Harrison is not single handed responsable for the lack of boxing on the BBC or ITV. That would be the fact they can not compete with the money making power of box office events. That and they like to pay millions to crap presenters and spend £1.99 per year on live sports.

Sorry, I completely disagree. They're scared witless of it. It's nothing to do with not being able to compete - because they can do on Boxing. Did you know ITV were ready to bid more for Carl Froch than Primetime? The only reason they didn't is because they were reminded of the BBC's burnt fingers with Harrison. Haye has said he'd sign to a terrestrial contract too - but they're not interested because of what happened with Harrison.

The years of no boxing on TV since then have meant the general public don't know much about it - so the appetite has declined too, and that in turn has the impact you're referring to because the viewing figures might be lower than they need.

The reason money isn't the problem is because the BBC and ITV can sell the overseas rights as prime promoters, to they could sell on to HBO or Showtime and make mega-bucks. The commercial reality isn't what stops it - it is all because they're terrified of signing another Harrison. I think it is short sighted of them, particularly with the likes of Brook and Cleverley, but I can't see it changing.

- Haye will NOT make the fight last longer just for fans entertainment, that would just be stupid and risk getting caught by a lucky punch. If he wins late in the fight Haye may claim that is what he did. It would be like Manchester UTD taking it easy and not scoring too many just to make the game more entertaining.

Yes he will if he feels it is suitable - because the guy has regularly said he feels for boxing fans (especially in the numerous early Kahn fights which he rightly called 'disgraceful'). If he has Fraudley on the back foot early on, he'll tease it out. I'd put money on it. If he sees Fraudley simply doesn't want it at all, then he may finish him off. I fully expect him to make Fraudley look stupid (which won't be difficult) one way or the other.

-Im sure everyone on TSN has heard the name Fraudley and you forgot A-Farce not just "real boxing fans" on some internet site.

A-Farce isn't quite as bad a put down as Fraudley and I think it sums him up so much better.

Dont get me wrong i am no Harrison fan, and i used to be a massive Haye fan. That was untill Haye came out with his Gang rape joke, IMHO that was way out of order. Harrison could have gone to town in the press about that if he was such a bad person as you make him out but he just let it drop and didn't fan the flames even when the media pushed him.

It's boxing. It's Haye, it's what he's all about. He is superb at hype and he entertains. The rape jibe was poor, and he did give a half-baked apology for it. However, it hardly represents something Harrison could have really gone to Town on. It certainly doesn't compare with the likes of Hopkins and his 'never be beaten by a white boy' comments.

I also dont think its right that Hayemaker productions can dictate when Harrison had to arrive in England, what media work he has to do and what hotel he has to stay at (i know he moved to a hotel of his choice this week).

The only reason for that is that Harrison brings absolutely nothing to the table. Without Haye he'd be fighting for £10,000. With Haye, he's fighting for a million. The promoting camps picking hotels is the norm. It happened to Haye when he fought Mormeck at Cruiserweight, and he simply moved hotel and paid for his own. Fighters are used to doing it, it's part of the psychology of the sport.

Lets just hope its a good fight and not over in 1, so we get a little moneys worth.

It won't be a good fight, I'd put money on it. I say that because you have to have 2 good fighters to get that, and in this case there is one very accomplished fighter and one chump.

I don't care in all honesty. I've paid my £15 to watch Haye get rid of the moron once and for all.

[billy2shots]

- beat Wlad, must fight Vitali within 3 months

- beat Vitali, must take Wlad rematch within 3 months

- beat Wlad again, must refight Vitali within 3 months

- lose at any point - Haye would get no rematch and in EVERY fight it'd always be in Germany

MrMe i am led to believe the details are close to what you descibe however those time scales are from the Haye camp and are so tight for one reason. Haye has always said he will retire before he turns 31 (11 months and a bit away). As a result he would have to fight every 3 months.

The klitschko brothers are not forcing him to retire in a years time and if he pospones his retirement he can spread the fights out.

We will have to disagree on the fact that someone would hang around and risk getting hurt, beaten and career in tatters for the sake of entertaining you and me.

[Tipex]

The years of no boxing on TV since then have meant the general public don't know much about it - so the appetite has declined too, and that in turn has the impact you're referring to because the viewing figures might be lower than they need.

This.

I used to watch boxing, never a die hard fan, but I generally knew what was going on, and I'd stay up till all hours to watch fights, I enjoyed it, but not enough to pay per view it.

Now I don't really have a clue who is who, or what's going on, none of the current boxers seem to me, to have the recognition by the general public, and resultant fame/tv appearances as the old school lot I remember, Bruno/Eubank/Lewis etc etc.

For me personally, pay per view has destroyed boxing, as I don't watch any more, how has it affected you as a proper fan? do you feel the game is worse off for it, or do you feel the pay per view coverage is better, and worth the money?

[NewNiceMrMe]

MrMe i am led to believe the details are close to what you descibe however those time scales are from the Haye camp and are so tight for one reason. Haye has always said he will retire before he turns 31 (11 months and a bit away). As a result he would have to fight every 3 months.

Yes, I know, but they're precisely what Chisora has been told. It's lunacy. As it stands Haye has said this week that he hopes they get still get the fights on in 2011.

Good to see Ricky Hatton looking a bit slimmer now too, in the ring with Kenny Anderson.

Mind you, I think he's got a loser there tonight. I can't see George Groves doing anything other than winning this one. I also think he'll beat DeGale if they can get that fight arranged after this.

[billy2shots]

Its a little like football being on sky and ESPN etc, it generates so much more money which in turn gets paid to the clubs and then on to the players. I dont blame boxers because they will opt for the highest paid deal like all of us.

MrMe may blame Harrison for the state we are in but anyone can see this happened in the US a long long time ago.

Lets make it simple risk your health and career on the BBC for a few hundred grand or fight on HBO, Box Office, Golden Boy promotions for up to £8 million. Its a no brainer but im sure at least one person will see it a different way.

[NewNiceMrMe]

For me personally, pay per view has destroyed boxing, as I don't watch any more, how has it affected you as a proper fan? do you feel the game is worse off for it, or do you feel the pay per view coverage is better, and worth the money?

Well as a die-hard fan it hasn't affected me at all, cos' I'd pay whatever I needed to. Furthermore, it has (in some ways) opened up a few avenues that were never there before. I can watch all the Stateside fights if I want to, online. Or, as Billy eluded to earlier, we can watch the real fights like Pacman v Margarito (early hours) because PPV means we have access to them.

Now is a strange time for boxing. It has suffered through the popularity of UFC style boxing but there are good times on the horizon for British fans in particular.

It's been a terrific 5 years with Hatton and Calzaghe, but now they're gone there are the likes of Kell Brook and Nathan Cleverley ready to take over. They have huge potential. Both could be world stars within 3 years. Then you have Amir. An undoubted talent who has blossomed under Roach. He faces Marcos Madaina next and he packs a very big punch indeed. Amir will win, I'm sure of that because of his speed, but it's the first 'real' challenge in a while.

So it hasn't changed anything for me, but I do think the public are missing out on some excellent performances (Cleverleys last fight was a masterclass) and I'd like to see it back on the airwaves of terrestrial TV. The days when everyone could watch Benn v Eubank for nothing are long gone and will probably never return unfortunately.

Mind you, there is one big plus. It is keeping Tyson Fury off the television and anything that does that is good for me. He promised so much 2 years ago and now looks like the next Fraudley waiting to happen.

[NewNiceMrMe]

MrMe may blame Harrison for the state we are in but anyone can see this happened in the US a long long time ago.

Lets make it simple risk your health and career on the BBC for a few hundred grand or fight on HBO, Box Office, Golden Boy promotions for up to £8 million. Its a no brainer but im sure at least one person will see it a different way.

That's a bit harsh. Boxers who risk life and limb will go for the pay packet, of course they will.

The point I am making is that the payday could have been controlled by terrestrial channels selling on rights to the States if Harrison hadn't scared them all. Okay so I'm being very harsh on him too, because there are lots of other factors - but he still played a major role in it. Remember that the way this game works is that just because the BBC has rights over here doesn't mean the fighter can't get his millions out of the US. It's no different with Sky, they have rights which they sell on. However, remember that Golden Boy are promoters, not a channel. They promote the fights to HBO and others (and indeed are restricted in their dealings now). They're the big boys in this but they'd be happy to deal with the BBC and ITV because they know a wider audience means a brighter future.

[NewNiceMrMe]

Incidentally, Groves looks a little troubled here to me! I'm very surprised to see this. Anderson looks very good in there tonight.

It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out.

[NewNiceMrMe]

This is gonna be over in the next round if they don't sort him out quickly. He looks nothing like the real Groves!

[billy2shots]

Groves looks in a spot of bother.....

Whats your take on UFC, its gaining momentum and i love watching it. 2 cousins fight MMA at the moment and its great action. I love Ultimate Fighter thats on Sky Sports now, the early series were on Bravo.

[NewNiceMrMe]

Never watch UFC. Don't like it.

I'm a traditionalist in that respect. Boxing, or nothing.

[NewNiceMrMe]

That's more like it. Quality comeback from Groves.

I thought he was going to let me down there. I'm disappointed to see Anderson being so unsporting in defeat. If he thinks the ref could have let that continue he's living on another planet. He'd have had no ribs left.

[billy2shots]

The better quality showed in the end. Anderson should have finished him when he had the chance. Its funny but unless spark out boxers always protest they could have carried on. Just the pride in them i guess.

[Tipex]

Whats your take on UFC, its gaining momentum and i love watching it. 2 cousins fight MMA at the moment and its great action.

One of my cousins fights in the MMA to! Leigh Cahoon, or 'the Boom' as he's known.

[billy2shots]

LOL

Now the Haye camp have given Harrison a faulty pair of gloves that fell apart on inspection by the British board of control.

Now Hayes manager and trainer Adam Booth wants to sue for breach of contract.

[NewNiceMrMe]

That's bollocks from Harrisons camp. As Lennox Lewis has just said, gloves are sorted out long before now.

I suspect they're just getting their excuses in early...

[billy2shots]

Yep it is nonsense should never even be broadcast.

[billy2shots]

Right im off for a pi55 and to get a drink.

Enjoy the fight guys, Haye in 4!

[NewNiceMrMe]

As I said...Haye picks his round, Fraudley has no heart, all over.

No surprise, no upset, no chance, no heart.

Thank god he's gone.