330dcoupe Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 as a second car to keep miles off the beemer - Any recommendations? it has to be fairly reliable - budget will be around £2-3k - half way through this year (so please consider depreciation, where you can ) . I fancy a Mini Cooper - but I've heard the 1.6 engine (even none 'S' is quite thirsty) Other car's i've looked at - Citroen C2 (never driven); Fabia VRS (I don't like the 1.9 lump in it though!); Pug 106 GTi; Smart roadster (really!); Ford SportKa (rare) thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have a Citroen C2 VTR. Great little car, a lot of fun, however you may want to take the VTS as it has a little more power, and most importantly, gets rid of the 'sensodrive' paddleshift semi-auto box which is an acquired taste. I've had mine for nearly a year now and paid £4k for a good 50k miles example. my average is 35mpg, but that is round the back roads generally, and it gets some hammer. when I do boring motorway miles I hit 40 or so. the thing is solid and fairly easy to maintain, and cheap too, although if you get a vtr, the sensodrive is costly to replace if it goes properly tits up, though this is rare. There is also a 'GT' spec which is the 1.6 manual. If you're willing to have something slower the 1.4 will put up an even more impressive MPG, but a well specced VTS would be my choice. The car drives well and is nippy through the corners, but solidly built. My main criticism is the lack of sound deadening that makes it a tad rattly, but apart from that the driving experience is enjoyable. If you're lucky you will be able to get one with cruise and climate specced, but if you can't, it's not the end of the world for a runaround. If you've ever driven a saxo it feels a tad more grown up and less go-karty than that, but the C2 is still good fun on a nice b-road, and gives good pace. Out of those choices I would say you will get the best VFM from the Citroen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burble Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I had a Smart Roadster as a hire car a few years back and hated it. Hated it, hated it, hated it! The gearbox took 4-5 seconds from when it started to change gear to when drive would be back, it'd change gear at seemingly random times (it's favourite was changing down at motorway speeds when cruising). It was tiny inside, I'm 6 foot tall and couldn't get either enough leg room or the seat back far enough to get comfortable. The amount of storage was laughable - I had to put my stuff on the passenger seat, even my laptop bag wouldn't fit in anywhere. I hired it in Amsterdam and ended up having to drive to Munich in it. That was probably the most tiring drive I've ever done. Never again. On the positive side, it felt quite fast because it was low and the sound from the dump valve (or recirc valve, I forget which) was quite intoxicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 You might get a Lupo GTi in budget, great fun car - I actually brought one new having drove it back to back with a mini and prefered the Lupo. I think at the moment they sit at around the £4k mark but as with everything prices move :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4ttm4son Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think the Lupo GTi isn't the most frugal and I think a similar amount of fun can probably be had from a Lupo TDi. A remap on it will get 100 bhp and has as much Torque as you will ever need from it while being cheap cheap on the fuel bills. Riz has an Arosa TDi IIRC so will be able to give you a better idea of costs per fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I had a Smart Roadster as a hire car a few years back and hated it. Hated it, hated it, hated it! Funny that. I also had one as a hire car in Germany, expected to hate it, yet fell in love (yes, even with that crap gearchange). £3K, fun, reliable, small you say ? How about one of these... Often mentioned as an alternative to an Elise, 138 bhp, 38 mpg, 0-60 in something like 7.8 secs, small, reliable and great fun to drive. I don't understand why they're so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burble Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Funny that. I also had one as a hire car in Germany, expected to hate it, yet fell in love (yes, even with that crap gearchange). How tall are you? I think a big part of me hating it was that I was cramped and uncomfortable. £3K, fun, reliable, small you say ? How about one of these...Often mentioned as an alternative to an Elise, 138 bhp, 38 mpg, 0-60 in something like 7.8 secs, small, reliable and great fun to drive. I don't understand why they're so cheap. Not an obvious choice but well worth looking at. I thought you'd be pimping the MK5, TDK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 You might get a Lupo GTi in budget, great fun car - I actually brought one new having drove it back to back with a mini and prefered the Lupo. I think at the moment they sit at around the £4k mark but as with everything prices move :D I had a look at a Lupo GTi around when I was looking for a new car, but ended up with the C2 as the cost (both to buy and to run) was too high, and I couldn't find a good example near me in the time I wanted. MG ZR would be cheap as chips, but I have doubts on their reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuprabob Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 MG ZR would be cheap as chips, but I have doubts on their reliability. ...and you would only be able drive it in the dark :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 How tall are you? I think a big part of me hating it was that I was cramped and uncomfortable. I'm 6'. In 2" heels though. It was snug, but I drove roof down, so it didn't bother me. I thought you'd be pimping the MK5, TDK? The MX-5 is ace of course, but for that money the MR2 makes more sense (the only MX5 better IMO is the 1.8iS which is prob just out of budget). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Malagus: thanks for that. The VTS does look nice - and it's performance figures suggest that it's quite nippy. What's the 1.4 like? The Lupo is a good shout - but they're going for serious money at the moment (future classic?) and it's hard to find one that hasn't had the 'chav' touch to it. If time was not an issue, I would buy either a MK1 Golf GTi or a 205 GTi and spend a bit of cash on it - but time is of the essence in my life at the minute. TDK - I don't really want an out and out roadster - and the VVTI engine's in them are quite thirsty...because it has to be hammered to have any sort of performance from it. I would prefer a N/A 1.6 or TDI. I'll tell you what I would like to buy - and I've owned one a couple of years back - a Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI. A fantastic little car - but they're holding their value really well too. I know it's got the VAG 1.9 TDI lump in this - but it's characteristics are so different than the VRS. My money is on a Cooper at the moment though - because if i look at the candidates, it's the only one I can see lasting me well over 7-8 years as a run around, with minimum problems. Edited January 11, 2011 by 330dcoupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you don't want a roadster, fair enough, but you don't have to rag 'em and they do 38mpg combined. The 189 bhp vvti engine in the celica is the one that needs strangling to go. How trouble free will an old(er) Mini Cooper be ? Never owned one myself. Lupo Gti would be ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I've got a C2 VTR diesel today. It's definitely frugal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 the 1.4 C2 is a labouring 14 seconds to 60, the smaller engine in the range (1.1?)is similar due to a shorter gearing, but noisier. As for the soot chucker versions? to paraphrase garcon, they're crap. For me a c2 is a straight shoot between VTR and GT/VTS, depending on whether or not you can live with sensodrive. The very small engine is very frugal, but a bit too slow to be enjoyable. and the 1.4 is an odd one, as it is better for cruising and longer runs, but offers little more than that over the very small one. My only worry with the mini would be that when it goes wrong, costly to fix. The price of the C2 is such that you can pick one up with relatively low miles, i would say far lower than the equivalent mini, run it to 120,000, fix the odd thing along the way and then scrap it when it becomes costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you don't want a roadster, fair enough, but you don't have to rag 'em and they do 38mpg combined. The 189 bhp vvti engine in the celica is the one that needs strangling to go. How trouble free will an old(er) Mini Cooper be ? Never owned one myself. Lupo Gti would be ace. I'd imagine a (BMW) mini cooper would stay glued together better than a Japanese car. Have I just opened a can of worms here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Trust me, the Cooper is crap on fuel. My wife had one for 5 years and we never saw more than 260 miles out of a tank and that was with her doing a 15 mile run to work along decent A roads. The second generation from 2006 are a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Common faults on minis include electric window motors, power steering pumps, clutch and gearbox issues. All not cheap to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 The very small engine is very frugal, but a bit too slow to be enjoyable. Not necessarily. Depends how you drive it - as with many cars. If you drive a small engine car liek you do with the bigger car, it'll return sh1te MPG. Drive it like Miss Daisy and you'll be fine - never revving it over 4K for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuits Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Fiat 500 Abarth ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burble Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 For £2-£3K?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Biscuit, as much as I want to spend a little more - I'm going to stick to a budget - I want a e90 M3 sometime next year + we're currently looking to buy a house. So need to keep costs down as much as possible and I don't think the Abarth will be anywhere near my budget anytime soon. If i could stretch to 5-7k then the Abarth would have walked the contest. Another one I've thought of...but get the heeji jeebies just thinking about it: Citroen Saxo VTS. I've read that it's one of the best supermini's of the modern era - how true that is, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Trust me, the Cooper is crap on fuel. My wife had one for 5 years and we never saw more than 260 miles out of a tank and that was with her doing a 15 mile run to work along decent A roads. The second generation from 2006 are a lot better. This is the only worry. I'd be contradicting myself If i bought the mini - but surely it's good for 35-40mpg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I doubt the Fiat with its good reviews has dropped that far yet. Mini I cannot see being frugal at any point. I actually test drove a mini twice - first time brought a Lupo Gti and second time brought a Clio 172 as I thought both were better fun to drive!! Id have thought with your budget youd easily get a MK1 or MK2 GTi, if not GOlf then how about mk2 Jetta GTi - although Autotrader brought 0 up for sale when I just checked. Id have thought youd have picked up a Honda Integra type R for yor budget - obviously only thirsty when being given some stick and will probably be worth what you paid when you sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Our eldest daughter has an 05 Mini Cooper and it has been faultless. Not a single issue with it (well, if you forget her knocking the wing mirror off twice and collecting the mirrors off a Maserati Quattroporte and a brand new Astra). However, it's only done 31,000 miles and has the Cherished Mini thingy pack and all that gubbins, so it has been well looked after. I can't praise it highly enough. I don't necessarily agree that fuel economy is 'crap' but I can see Boosters point. However, it's a 1.6 litre small nippy car that handles like it is on rails and encourages you to go for it. It's an absolute joy to drive. I don't think you'd get 40 to the gallon out of it. MINI claim 42 mpg or something like that but I think 33-35 is more to be expected. It's a lot less than that if I drive it though. However - there is major upside. They still hold value incredibly well and far better than anything else in the sector that I have seen (Booster can correct me I'm wrong on that as he'll know much more than me, but from what I've seen they still sell very strongly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Biscuit, as much as I want to spend a little more - I'm going to stick to a budget - I want a e90 M3 sometime next year + we're currently looking to buy a house. So need to keep costs down as much as possible and I don't think the Abarth will be anywhere near my budget anytime soon. If i could stretch to 5-7k then the Abarth would have walked the contest. Another one I've thought of...but get the heeji jeebies just thinking about it: Citroen Saxo VTS. I've read that it's one of the best supermini's of the modern era - how true that is, I don't know. My housemate last year ran a saxo VTS and I had an extended run in it before getting the C2. Apart from driving fun, in every other aspect the C2 is better. more reliable, better specced, easier to find a low mile unmolested one, more spacious, better looking (imo). The C2's added weight is a little numbing for the driving experience, and it's a tad less direct, but it's safer and a better cruiser too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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