Paul Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 [ QUOTE ] but you know what I really want to do? I want to find THE wheel cleaner. [/ QUOTE ] your be hard pressed to find anything better than "MC2" dilute to desired strength, spray on with pump up garden style bottle and then by time you have set up your pressure washer up, jet wash it off. Nearly everything comes off, then just finish off with a sponge behind the spokes etc MC2 is brilliant, but appears to be just a renamed and heavily repriced "viro-sol" read here for more info. I know what i will be trying when my "MC2" runs out !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 It's top stuff....regardless of the label and the amount I paid. Next time - viro-sol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHIZZER Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 is it really that good, i have been using wheel brightner on the mrs x5 for a while now which seem ok, just sponge my wheels. is mc2 or virasol can you use it every wash ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I do. I use a garden pressure spray to spray the wheels all over to start with. I then get the hose, buckets, shampoo, pressure washer all set up. I then pressure wash the car, finishing up with the wheels. It simply lifts all the drake dust and crud straight off. I actually use it quite diluted due to the price (but not now I know it's virasol!) This was the wheel before. It didn't even need a sponge to finish it off and make it look like new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Thanks paul, I'll look into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but you know what I really want to do? I want to find THE wheel cleaner. [/ QUOTE ] your be hard pressed to find anything better than "MC2" dilute to desired strength, spray on with pump up garden style bottle and then by time you have set up your pressure washer up, jet wash it off. Nearly everything comes off, then just finish off with a sponge behind the spokes etc MC2 is brilliant, but appears to be just a renamed and heavily repriced "viro-sol" read here for more info. I know what i will be trying when my "MC2" runs out !!!! [/ QUOTE ] Saturday, one of our new customers who visits the forum you linked to also recommended viro-sol, he bought a gallon and says it's fantastic stuff. ...so we looked into it a bit further and found that its the same stuff we use to clean our toilets!!!! Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying that cleaning toilets is all it's good for. Jantastic and Clover Chemicals are janatorial suppliers, they sell it for cleaning toilets, but its a citrus cleaner, citrus means acid and acid cleans wheels. I am often told by certain very decent, and trustworthy people within the industry that there are very few miricles in the car care world (I can think of only two products that are truely special and unique), most of it is just basic chemistry. After a lenghty discussion about wheel cleaners with two qualified chemists who visited us this weekend, Viro-sol would actually be a very weak wheel cleaner compared to the kind of thing we use... but if it works, I'm not knocking it! Why use a powerful two stage cleaner if regular use of a mild cleaner does the job? Dust from the pads is not a problem, this will rinse off with soapy water, it's the metal fallout from the disks which sticks then corrodes. Before claybars we used to deal with fallout by giving an acid bath. Washing your wheels in citrus is pretty much doing the same thing. What you are doing is temoraraly speeding up the whole corrosion process by adding acid, the fallout particles disolve and so loosen themselves from the paintwork which is far more resistant to acids than bare metal. I can also tell you that as the acid disolves the metal particles if becomes nutralized, so it will not penetrate very far. So apply the cleaner and then agitate with a brush. You don't need to scrub as this does no good. You just need to give it a tickle to disturb the top layer and then reapply some more cleaner. Just be sure to rinse well to nutralize the acids, a spot of soap wouldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo_nr1 Posted February 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I think everyone one TSN would be grateful if someone was able to get cleaning products a t a better than "retail" costs. I for one would appreciate that. I would also appreciate your professional opinion as to the best and easiest way to use a claybar and is the product actually damaging the paint. The thought of dragging something alone the paint worrys me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 As it happens, I had something of an education on claybars recently. I heard it in a very noisy pub from a guy with a very strong Indian accent... and I'm a bit mutton, But I heard the general gist of it. It turns out that some clever chap from Japan developed the claybar from Japanese natural clay (mud). He patented it, copyrighted it, trademarked it and otherwise has the rights to it sewn up like a kipper. But the Japanese clay is really expensive so what you normally get is a plastic putty designed to do the same thing. I could be wrong but I have tried to do some research and what I have been told is that all this clay is pretty much made in the same factory in japan... any other brand has been shut down through patent infringement... at least thats what I've heard. The plastic putty (which is what virtually everybody uses) comes in three grades. There are two professional puttys, a normal and heavy duty. And light version often called an Eraser, this is the kind that you will probably buy retail. I haven't used the real Japanese clay yet, but but the putty is really good for removing all kinds of fallout. If you are going to buff a car, you will get best result if you clean the paintwork with a caybar, it will remove water stains, salt stains, calcium and the like. It means that when you polish you end up with far better result. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear as the saying goes, a good finish depends more on preparatin than th wax you choose. When I use a claybar on my car, understand I have never used a new one, so as well as just warming it up in my hands to make it soft, pushing it into a flat disk shaped sorta blob. I cut a slit in it and turn it inside out... if that makes any sense? It's just to make sure get a clean surface on the bar, then there is less chance of dragging dirt across the surface. You have to wash the car and once it's clean you can either spray soapy water or clay lubericant on the car (i have always used soap until yesterday when I had a go with lubricants and it is certainly nicer to use), and then with the flattened claybar, just stroke the surface. Don't press down, just do it very very lightly. It's that easy. every once in a while, kneed the claybar into a new flat shape with a new clean surface. You can hear when you are done because the paintwork becomes squeeky clean... so listen for the squeeks. Attached is a photo I took yesterday of Willy stroking the roof of a vintage GTI with a 3M claybar and Allbrite clay lubricant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I was (still am) a newbie in regard to claybars. I tried the Meguiars kit. washed car thoroughly and decided to try it on the boot lid/bumper as thats where most the crap gets flung up on the S3. I emphasise the fact i - Flooded - the work area with the fluid, and nearly used the whole 1 litre pump bottle on the boot lid alone, and i stuggled. A. I was not happy moving the grit and debris i picked up in the clay over the car.. It didnt feel right, if you know what i mean, almost the same feeling i get when thinking of car washes.... B. Quite regularly the clay would stick and leave a track behind, despite flooding the area with the fluid supplied. could i get that stuff back off with the clay??? NO. in the end i resulted to a light application of scratch x to get rid of it. so i gave it up as a bad job and launched it in the bin. where i go wrong? was i expecting too much? Was i pressing too hard? as i felt simply drifing over it quickly was not doing anything, I felt i had to spend quite alot of time focussing on cleansing the panel. Id like to get the clay baring done. At coming up to two years in May, the car has hoovered up some crap in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Thats a good question... Sounds like you did everything right to me. I don't want to go into a rant and I don't want to be negative about any companies or products... but certain companies are selling professional (style) products so that enthuiasts can play at being professional... usually they are pretty much weaker, milder, or in some way designed so that you can't do any damage. But the truth is that we professionals do screw thigs up fairly regular. Anybody in this game who doesn't have a moment when they fill their pants at least once a month isn't trying hard enough. Luckily we have all the answers to the problems we cause, even if they do cost us money. (The amazing thing is that it's always the customers whos cars were screw up on that keep comming back, they have had the worst happen and know we can make good and put things right). The point is, if you want to do things the way the professionals do, then you are going to have to suffer the same slings and arrows. I can't see any other way around it. Have a look at this web page on our site:- http://www.clean-image.co.uk/articles/wet_sanding.htm So do you think we are too worried by some light scratches caused by a calybar mishap? Mind you, we would only cause the very lightest of scratches because we are fairly well practiced. But we only claybar prior to buffing or polishing, when scratches will be removed. So you did exactly the right thing. You clayed the car and polished out the scratches. I'm afraid that any time you rub anything on your paintework you are taking a risk, that includes waxing it or washing it. Claybar is not a polish, and it's not a once-a-week paint cleaner (paint cleaner is just a fancy name for polish usually). Anybody who wants to go the whole hog with thier car, clay it, buff it and all the rest of it, then good luck to them, but even if Meguiars do make their buffing machine orbital, lightweight and rather weak, there is still a risk to it.And there is still a knack to it. So, the very first time you claybar, you will be removing a lot of fallout and other crap, you will have to turn the clay often to keep the surface clean, but expect scratches and be prepared to polish them out! for the sake of argument, if you were to clay your car a week later, there would be very little crap if you washed it properly, little fallout, and the risk of scratching minimal, tiny compared to the first time... but if there is no crap and no fallout, why do it? You are taking an un necessary risk, if some grit blows up from the gutter and gets on your claybar, then you have porked your paintwork for nothing. But on the whole, I highly recommend clay bars, and I may actually be addicted to the smell of clay lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agoogy Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Interesting discussion here chaps.. for my 2 penneth, I always used to use Autoglym... thanks to their advertising mainly, used to think their gold labled ultra shine stuff was great, then I found Zymol...and that sounded awesome..but how much!!! so after a bit of internet surfing and some pewrsonal recommendations I ended up buying a starter kit from DT Concours. Wash car with shampoo, apply lube sparingly, use clay/putty bar (and just accept the awful feeling of rubbing metal particles all over the paint, it'll be ok!) apply paint cleanser, apply WAX (not polish) and admire...comes up like glass, I do this twice a year, and in between after a good wash apply wax on its own... the horrible truth is that for people who like getting the best finish on their car, your probably sentenced to a life of spending money on all the different products, never settling on one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durrsaku Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 There are some good tips in your posts about how to use claybar. I have used it once on my car and it removed a lot of dirt from it (about a month ago) then i polished the car. I was just wondering how many times do you use one before you change it? Mine came in a square sort of shape but its in pieces now having taken the shape of my fingers while using it and of course i had to fold it several times as it was getting dirty. Do i just roll it into a ball and use it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thats pretty much it. When it feels gritty, fold it until it doesn't and if that doesn't work, throw it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 re wheel cleaner someones had a chemical analysis done on the two products.. MC2, and Viro-sol their identicle. Graph posted on page 7 in my link above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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