sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Anyone have any direct experience of performance car clubs that share cars amongst their members ? The P1 club is the most well-know club, launched by Damon Hill a few years ago. They have a huge selection of awesome cars, but the annual fee is £13,750 (or £11,750 for a lower level membership) plus £2,500 joining fee. Basically the membeship fee gives you a certain number of points which can be spent on hiring cars, where the cost is based on the type of car, the season and the time of week. They reckon you get access to cars for 60 days per annum, but clearly if your points will run out much quicker if you are after the Lambo Murcialago rather than the M3 CSL !! I've also heard off another club called Autopia, membership was 'just' £5000 p.a. but I'm not sure whether this actually got off the ground - the phone number on the website doesn't work. I've been considering buying a serious car for ocasional / weekend use (F360, 911 etc) but given that it will be sitting in the garage for 5 days a week while I'm at work (and maybe more when the weather is bad), joining a car club which has a good variety of cars may be a better solution. Anyone know of any others clubs, or have any comments on the above? Cheers Sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 It's an idea with its merits, but for me, spending £17K and having nothing to show for it at the end of the year (except some hopefully nice days out) seems excessive. I'm sure there are cheaper options, but you can bet they'll have cheaper/older cars too. But most of all, you're just not going to get the "ownership experience" of knowing it's your car. Having it sat in the garage ready to rock whenever you're in the mood, cleaning it, pampering it, just having it. I reckon there's more to having a weekend toy like this than just driving it, knowing its yours and its sat in your garage counts for a lot. Back to that £17K P1 deal, I'd rather stick that (plus a bit more maybe) into a second-hand Lotus Elise, at least it'd be my car and it'd have value in it at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activa Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 A few years ago I was doing some work for an ex-boss at his Kings Cross offices. Right next door was a car club just like the ones you're talking about. Loads of Porsches,Ferraris etc.,he was a member and I'm sure it was nothing like the figures you've been mentioning. I'll drop him a mail and find out the details. I'll post the results later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSE Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 P1 is the only club I have heard of, and I read quite a detailed review on it and a very entertaining interview with Damon, in a car mag fairly recently. I personally think that the annual membership fee is pitched at tempting a particular calibre of person for membership. I also think it is a little excessive for 60 days of driving. Having said that though, for roughly the same amount of cash, you could have 60 track days in whatever car an have all the tuition needed and a DVD thrown in....now thats a bargain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I'll drop him a mail and find out the details. I'll post the results later! [/ QUOTE ] Cheers, mate ! sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] It's an idea with its merits, but for me, spending £17K and having nothing to show for it at the end of the year (except some hopefully nice days out) seems excessive. the "ownership experience" of knowing it's your car. Having it sat in the garage ready to rock whenever you're in the mood, cleaning it, pampering it, just having it. I reckon there's more to having a weekend toy like this than just driving it, knowing its yours and its sat in your garage counts for a lot. [/ QUOTE ] Ari I take your point, but consider the following: I've decided that its time for one last fun car before family priorities take over for good, and with work going well have decided to go for someone exotic. Obvious choices are a used 911 or 360 Modena, probably available around the £65k mark. Monday to Friday I leave the house at around 5.45am and don't return until after 7.45pm, so rarely would I feel like going for a drive in my new toy. I wouldn't be comfortable leaving the Ferrari in the station car park for all that time while I was at work, although maybe the Porsche would be Ok here. There are clearly places that I wouldn't choose to leave the Porsche either, so I'd definitely need a second car for commuting purposes. Thus really any fun car is going to get used at weekends only. Chances are that for reasons of bad weather and other family commitments, there will be only 50-75 days where I can enjoy the car. Allowing for interest on the purchase price, plus the cost of depreciation, insurance etc I reckon you'd be looking at over £10k, for the purposes of 'having the car in the garage' (not to mention the additional risk, that my wife might try and take it for a spin without supervision!), which to my mind is where the Autopia idea looks to be reasonably priced, plus you get the option of a variety of cars, not just one. I'd also be able to keep my M3 as 'the practical day-to-day' car. Other options - contract hire? I guess an alternative solution would be to contract hire a used Fezza 360 for a year. Lets assume the value at the start is £70k, value after 1 year is guaranteed to be at least £62k (subject to condition and mileage limits), Assume interest at 8% APR. Pay a deposit of 10% of the value up front (£7k) then 12 monthly payments of circa £500 (by my calculations that funds the interest on £62k borrowed for 1 year plus the £8k depreciation). At the end of the contract you'd have the option to a) walk away (providing the condition, mileage etc was as agreed), b) buy the car at the guaranteed price and keep it or c) use the (positive) difference between the guaranteed price and the market value towards another car. 1) Can this realistically be done for used Ferraris? 2) Are the figures above realistic? 3) Any better solutions ? Cheers Sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I agree entirely with your logic, but you're applying common sense to an irrational purchase! Nah, if it works for you then fair enough, and I can see the advantages. But I'd want to own it, whatever it is. Also, they're not going to have strings of Ferrari F430's or whatever, so what is the realistic chance of you, out of all the members, getting the car on the day you want in the weather you want? You're potentially removing all the opportunity and spontanaity from the idea by having to plan and book ahead rather than waking up on a glorious summer morning and thinking "sod it, I'll take the car out for a blast for the day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Ari Fair point! If the Ferrari lease option above works then that is probably first choice, unless someone explains why it isn't a good idea. sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 The reason it's not a good idea is cos it'll cost more. Someone is going to have to "lend" the money and take a risk on the future value of the car, and they aint going to do that for free. If you don't want to stump up all the money in one hit why not just take out a loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I would suggest that 500 per month may be a bit too low, I have seen monthlys close to that being quoted on Boxsters for half the price of a 360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I've done the maths !! Broadly the expected depreciation is £8k and the cost of the 'loan' at 8% over 1 year is £5k, so £13 in total, made up of £7k deposit and 12 * £500 = £6k. I presume that the Boxster analogy would not have included the £7k deposit ? sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 that was with a 5k deposit on a 36k boxster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I think P1 is a great idea for what you want it for. You can do it for a set period and then stop. No hassle in buying and selling the car. You will get a choice of lots of top motors, Astons, Ferraris, Porsches what more could you ask for ? It most certainly isn't for everyone but as a chance to drive lots of exotic when you want within reason. I would certainly go for it given the chance. No you won't own your own supercar but you won't have all the hassle that goes with it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] The reason it's not a good idea is cos it'll cost more. Someone is going to have to "lend" the money and take a risk on the future value of the car, and they aint going to do that for free. If you don't want to stump up all the money in one hit why not just take out a loan? [/ QUOTE ] Ari A £60k loan over 1 year is over £5k a month which may be difficult to fund ! I guess my whole point is that I'm happy to fund the interest cost and depreciation on a monthly basis and leave my current svaings where they are, albeit that this will work out more expensive in the long run. sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 A_S is right he monthly charges on an lease would be very high. A Bentley at £150k is 1700 a month or more. Have a look at this place. They seem to have the option to lease none new cars. Car leasing... Inc Ferrari / Aston etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 The P1 club is a fantastic idea IMO Too steep for me though at 12K p/a. Makes more sense than having a "prestige" weekend car though, and you get the buzz of driving a different car frequently too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I read an article on these types of car clubs. There was one thing that they warned against....mileage limits. Many of them only allow you 100 miles for as long as a 3 day period from what I read. I just couldn't be doing with that. My 6 sits in the garage Monday to Friday, but that makes it even more special when the weekend comes. It's like having a new car every weekend with the feeling it gives me. I also agree with one of Ari's initial comments - that being that I just couldn't throw £13-14k into a hole knowing I'd never get any money back. Car's are a bad investment to begin with, but at least owning one mitigates the losses of hiring one (which essentially is what the P1 Club is doing). I can see the merits in this particular case, but personally I'd buy a daily runner of a decent spec and then a car for the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The reason it's not a good idea is cos it'll cost more. Someone is going to have to "lend" the money and take a risk on the future value of the car, and they aint going to do that for free. If you don't want to stump up all the money in one hit why not just take out a loan? [/ QUOTE ] Ari A £60k loan over 1 year is over £5k a month which may be difficult to fund ! I guess my whole point is that I'm happy to fund the interest cost and depreciation on a monthly basis and leave my current svaings where they are, albeit that this will work out more expensive in the long run. sidicks [/ QUOTE ] Well finance it over 10 years but settle it after a year when you sell the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I also agree with one of Ari's initial comments - that being that I just couldn't throw £13-14k into a hole knowing I'd never get any money back. Car's are a bad investment to begin with, but at least owning one mitigates the losses of hiring one (which essentially is what the P1 Club is doing). I can see the merits in this particular case, but personally I'd buy a daily runner of a decent spec and then a car for the weekend. [/ QUOTE ] You only own a car if you have zero outstanding finance on it. The point of car clubs is you get to drive better cars that you'd be able to afford/justify as a personal purchase/finance option. Now whats the cheapest Vanquish club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 What's the position in respect of if you have an accident when driving something such as a Murcielago say? Do you pay the excess...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Well finance it over 10 years but settle it after a year when you sell the car. [/ QUOTE ] Presumably there will be some big penalties to pay if you do that ?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 I think normally there are penalties for early repayment within the first 12 months, after that you're ok. You obviously need to check with the company you're using, but I believe that is the usual situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriGGa Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 i think ive mentioned this in another post somewhere.. got a stupid reply.. but my dads mate rents out similar cars www.elitecarhire.co.uk ... (he is based in north london and the prices are onthe site) i think this works out better than some car clubs because people that want the cars mite want it a few times a year for those speciall occasions. but by payin 10-15 grand you mite not always use the car.. at least by hiring it.. you basically paying for just the amount you need to use it.. if it makes sense ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 [ QUOTE ] i think ive mentioned this in another post somewhere.. got a stupid reply.. [/ QUOTE ] Where is the post, and who wrote the stupid comment? [ QUOTE ] i think this works out better than some car clubs because people that want the cars mite want it a few times a year for those speciall occasions. but by payin 10-15 grand you mite not always use the car.. at least by hiring it.. you basically paying for just the amount you need to use it.. if it makes sense ?? [/ QUOTE ] Although the cars seem reasonably competitively priced compared to other supercar hire sites I've seen (e.g. Gallardo = £650 per day) that's still not more than 20 days hire to get you to £13k, whereas the P1 club implied that you get 50-60 days. Now if only elite car club did some TS.net discounts, and some scheme that you could get a discount based on the number of times you hired a car, then that might be interesting...... Sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriGGa Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 lool i dunno bout any discount as i aint an affiliate of the company.. just an admirer! lol as for the stupid post.. it was in the buy/sell section thingy under general.. some guy was like.. is this a lame advert cos its a shame i wanted 2 rent a ferrari blah blah.. i reckon he was talkin a load of feck! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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