Booster Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 PM sent back Insurance company not tracker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No tracker, no insurance. [/ QUOTE ] Especially as Tracker is now owned by one of the largest insurance groups in the UK. They get you over a barrel both ways. [/ QUOTE ] Yup. I had no choice. My insurers insisted on a Horizons system. I rang a few others just to check and everyone insisted on a minimum of a Monitor, with the vast majority wanting the Horizons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It has done it's job and the fault is fairly and squarely with the way dealerships view stolen/recovered vehicles. For example, had your car been stolen and dumped (which happens regularly), then you're contacted by the police because they find it 200 miles away, then it's still logged as Stolen/Recovered. So, as I see it, the problem is with the industry valuation of vehicles and certainly not with TNUK. [/ QUOTE ] No, the "fault" (if you want to call it that) is with the public. At the end of the day they don't want a stolen recovered vehicle, so you can hardly blame the garages for not wanting to take it in p/x. They're a business. If the stolen/recovered tag had no impact on saleability they'd have no issue with taking it in. All they want to do is sell cars at the end of the day, and if the general public don't want to take a stolen/recovered car then nor will the dealer. Put it another way, when you were looking at used Avants, if you found three similar cars, were about to buy one and the day you went to pick it up you found it was stolen recovered, would you have shrugged your shoulders and bought it anyway for the same money? Doubt it... [/ QUOTE ] I've been thinking about this. In all honesty I'd say it depends. If I was able to find out it was stolen and recovered with little or no damage, then I don't think it'd bother me at all. It'd be a different matter if it had been subject to more than minor damage though, so yes I agree on that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdiesel Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I had the basic Tracker on my S4. Discount off insurance -zero. When I bought the A6 it was a choice of £300 for the Tracker or £300 for RTI GAP insurance. I chose the GAP. The whole situation is screwed up, but I supose no one wins in the end. Hope you get a resolution Spartacus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I bet it would. I bet if this thread hadn't appeared and you found out today that your Audi was previously "stolen/recovered" this board would be full of "those fecking dealers, Im gonna kill 'em" etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 [ QUOTE ] "those fecking dealers, Im gonna kill 'em" etc! [/ QUOTE ] I'm going to do that anyway. Useless, absolutely useless. My 3 year old daughter can now lip-read Fifi and the Flowertots on DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5to1 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I would want a substantial discount of a car if it was tagged as stolen and recovered. Because I know I would need to discount it to sell it. Its a catch 22 situation. In any case, for most people a car is thier second biggest purchase in life. You can't blame them for being cautious. The only people to blame are the f*****s who stole the car in the first place. Perhaps as a long shot, you could try and claim the loss of value as a result of the theft from your insurance company. I bet they'd like that LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loafer27 Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Perhaps as a long shot, you could try and claim the loss of value as a result of the theft from your insurance company. I bet they'd like that LOL [/ QUOTE ] now that is a great idea and if u have legal protection that most of these fully comp policies give as standard it could prove interesting to see what their response will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 This suggestion cropped up before in another similar thread. Apparently an insurer only has to return the property to "as was", not make good any future losses that may arise as a consiquence. So if you bash the wing of your brand new Ferrari they have to fix the car, but you couldn't claim the car was worth less money now as has been damaged and repaired even if that is the case as they have discharged their obligation by fixing it and their responsibility ends there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted November 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Tried the loss claim with NU but there is a clause in all policies discounting this. Apparently HPI get there information real time from the MIAFTR database - Motor Insurance Anti Fraud and Theft Register which is there to protect us the public and catch crims who log bogus claims. My two thefts were registered with them simply as Thefts, NU are going to change them to - Stolen and Recovered. This is a legal requirement. That still means that my car has what appears to be a dodgy history and that reduces its value from approx £20k to nearer £5k which is what I have been offered. In hindsight if I had not bought a Tracker my car may not have been recovered, meaning NU would have paid out twice, so about £50k. I would now be in a position where I had a new car with no history of theft. At the moment I am nursing a £15k loss and have nobody to blame but myself. GAP insurance next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 [ QUOTE ] That still means that my car has what appears to be a dodgy history and that reduces its value from approx £20k to nearer £5k which is what I have been offered. [/ QUOTE ] I can't see that a "stolen/recovered" tag will wipe 75% off the vehicles value! Sounds to me like they're just trying to put you off. I'd try ringing a couple of indepentant traders yourself. Not saying it isn't worth less as a result, but not 75% less surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Very interesting read this thread. It certainly raises the issue of whether tracker systems are actually worth it in the long run. I suppose if you want a particular car and the only way to get it insured is to fit a tracker, then it obviously is. But for all other cases, maybe not. Does any insurance premium discount offered by a tracker make up for the installation costs? Do you actually want a car back after it's been stolen, possibly ragged and then be saddled with a stolen/recovered classification. I'm not sure what, if any, insurance discount I would get for fitting a tracker to my car would be, but after reading this I think I'll just stick with my GAP insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crasher Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I'm now with Liverpool Victoria insurance (through What Car) - they couldn't give a monkeys whether I have tracker fitted or not (as it happens, I have Tracker Horizon fitted). They offer no discounts at all. Not sure you could recoup the install/fitting costs of tracker, nor do i think it would add that much onto the value of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NunchukHamster Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Mrs Hamster used to be a call center manager for LV - be very careful, they can be a real pain when trying to put claims through if anything happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 In that case, I'm pleased that I've nearly got through the year with LV without incident. As a result of a premium increase from under £900 to over £1200, with no change in details, I certainly won't be renewing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichTT Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 There are Insurance companies who are not bothered about having trackers fitted.Regarding my car none of the mainstream Insurers would insure without tracker,but Ive found a couple who do. As demonstrated this time, if they do recover the car the value of the car drops(stolen.recovered),you will have a better deal if they car was never traced. Trackers are basically a rip off,I never bother with them.Just be careful where you park ie no multi story car parks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Have decided to sell my ML, looking at new ML or Cayenne. Approached the dealer for a trade in, they did an HPI check and now no longer want to do the deal as my car has been stolen / recovered twice. This is true but on both occassions it was recovered due to Tracker and both times undamaged, first time was 5 days, second time 45 mins. Both times keys were taken after my house was broken into. My car is now tarnished forever and this has decimated its value. Had I not bothered with a Tracker it may not have been recovered leaving the insurance company to pay out twice, so that would have been over £50k. As a consumer I have done everything correctly. Tracker are happy as I pay their subscription, the insurance company are happy as I have paid my increasing renewal fees, the Police are happy as the criminals did not profit from their crime, but I am left with a car that I now cannot sell at anything like its true value, so who's the sucker !!!!! Tracker do not make you aware of this when you buy their product and neither does the insurance company when you report the theft. This cannot be right. [/ QUOTE ] How did they know it was stolen/recovered? If the car is recovered to the owner (as I assume it was) - there will be no record on any HPI check. I know from my own experience this is the case, as I ran my own HPI check on my car after it was stolen/recovered back to me - and there was no record of the incident. [/ QUOTE ] That's what I can't understand either. The insurance company haven't had to pay out for a 'total loss' so why have they reported it to HPI? If you have an accident and the insurance co. repairs the damage, that's not recorded, so why have they recorded these incidents as 'stolen recovered' ? My understanding of 'stolen recovered' was that it meant the vehicle was recovered after the insurance co. had paid the owner out for the theft. It's very worrying if something has changed here. It used to be the case that the owner would never suffer reduced value due to the HPI register as the only way a vehicle got on there was if the insurance co. had taken over ownership and paid out the owner, either because the car was written off in an accident, or because they'd paid out for a theft before the vehicle was found. Anyone know if something has changed recently, or is this an isolated incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 This is what I said to Spartacus via PM. His insurance company have put the marker against the car when it was stolen. It is an insurance theft marker not stolen recovered. This is only normally used in fraud cases. I would be palying hell with the insurance company if it was me, threatening going to the insurance ombudsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted November 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I had a long call with the NU theft team yesterday. As soon as you call your insurance company to tell them that your call has been stolen, it is logged on the MIAFTR database as Theft. When you make a claim for new locks or courtesy car it becomes Theft - Insurance claim and when recovered, Stolen Recovered. All this stays with your car forever. I am going to write to Tracker for their take on this as if this is correct it will affect their business big time. They are a successful business and are doing a good job but this will cripple them ( as it has me )if it was widely known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 But your car isn't recorded as stolen recovered That would should up on the condition alert (vcar) tab at the top of the report I sent you, not the insurance theft one as yours is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomk Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 really sorry for this , i just cant belive thats how it works ! yes its stolen BUT there is a bit difference to stolen - burnt out adn rebuilt to ' keys taken and had a joyride' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Try PX/Sell with another dealer DO NOT MENSION TRACKER being fitted, then no checks no problems, best regards AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted November 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 [ QUOTE ] But your car isn't recorded as stolen recovered That would should up on the condition alert (vcar) tab at the top of the report I sent you, not the insurance theft one as yours is. [/ QUOTE ] Booster, the NU theft team are going to change the tag to Stolen Recovered. They said that is the correct tag, actually apologised for the Theft tag being on there. Apparently that happens in real time so should have happened yesterday. They absolutely will not remove it, saying that is now a legal requirement. Thanks for all your help, you have helped me out here by highlighting this on the HPI report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Try PX/Sell with another dealer DO NOT MENSION TRACKER being fitted, then no checks no problems, best regards AJ [/ QUOTE ] Any dealer buying any car will HPI it and therefore find out the info. Spartacus, No problem. Sorry you couldn't get it removed completely. Still, with the correct stolen recovered tag it will be worth more! (not its true value but at least some more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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