scillyisles Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] , that's dangerous sh!t bro. When 4WD lets go, it lets go!!! On a race track, granted... but on a public road !!! [/ QUOTE ] Depends on the car and the way in which it handles. For example the old Audi UR Quattro was superb when you got it into a 4 wheel drift on say a corner or coming out of a roundabout in damp conditions (like we have now). You could use the power to drift the car and there would'nt be any danger in doing it as the car was so controllable. However I would'nt try doing that in my RS2 - which whilst being much faster than an Audi UR Quattro - it does'nt have the same handling qualities to enable you to do this safely. The Mk V R32 does have this handling quality and provided you're not doing it in stupid locations it's just as safe as say getting the ESP to flash on your GTI in corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Leman, please stop mentioning that Taiwan Taxi, the A3 3.2! If ever there was a car that dissapointed me a lot, it was that one!!! reminded me of the old mans, granada ghia coupe of yesteryear, just a comfortable touring taxi, with about as much sports ability, as "tiger Tim" Henman at wimbledon! Cant make an analogy with new R32!! The new R32 is a much better car than a lot of MK4 owner's appreciate, it really is quick, I dare to say quite a bit quicker than the MK4....especially with DSG transmission.....(once mastered!)it does take time...still learning...... adapting I also understand that a lot of mK4 owners prefer "Steroids" look of the MK4, but each to his own,all I can say is that the "chicks" definitely prefer the looks of the MK5, which I guess might support Leman's "queer eye" comment........ I did say might!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Scilly hit's the nail firmly on the head! Leman, not talking about " balls out" driving here! but you have the ability to drift this car, like a rear wheel drive version,so I was referring to this "fun" to drive issue.... You can have an awful lot of fun in an R32 believe me.....and test driving one, does'nt really allow you to get to know the car intimately, with all due respect red, all you have is an "initial" impression of the car, so while I respect your opinion, I think that you cant actually realise the potential of any car,good or bad purely based on a test drive. You really do have to live with it, for a while, and I think this applies to this particular, car more than most.. Front wheel drive is all very well,bouncing around trying to put the power down and fighting the torque steer, when really gassing it, the ability to lift off when you really have gone into that corner a little bit too fast, and she comes back into line, all very safe, but fun? I would call it a style of driving, but not neccessarily my definition of driving fun..........each to his own... I say......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 You're absolutely right, fagash....half a day test driving, even alone, doesn't allow anyone to know the car 'intimately'....I reckon it takes (me) a couple of thousand miles to get to first base! As you mention the GTI's FWD tendency to judder when putting the power down on slippier surfaces, I've noticed that on the same regular junction my car with its upgraded suspension is now slightly better with less 'judder'. I'm not for a moment trying to claim that it even approaches the grip of the 4WD R32, but only that my suspension mod improves the GTI. I best post this info in the right thread. The new .:R is a great car (it's a VeeDub Golf!) but I wouldn't swop my GTI for it. R32 Mk6? - We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] You're absolutely right, fagash....half a day test driving, even alone, doesn't allow anyone to know the car 'intimately'....I reckon it takes (me) a couple of thousand miles to get to first base! [/ QUOTE ] I think that's a very pertinent point indeed. I've made a couple of rules for myself about buying cars. The first is that I'd certainly NEVER order a car that I hadn't been able to drive at all. The second is that I'd class a 'short' test drive as 60 minutes absolute minimum, but that to get me anywhere close to actually buying a car....I'd want it overnight. Ideally, for a full weekend. As part of the test drive process I'd take on the route I travel to the office, around a few country lanes that I visit on weekends, and try a few day-to-day jobs in it too (things you'd do when you actually owned it). As RR points out, it takes a long time before you'll truly find out just how good, bad or indifferent a car is. Look at the GTi for example. You've all fallen in love with it over a period of time, whether you were smitten with it on day one or not - your delight with the car has grown (in most cases). Very few GTi owners are going to say the R32 is much better purely on that basis. A short drive in one simply isn't a fair comparison. You need to do the routes you do in the GTi, have the overnighter, the weekend, blah blah. In some cases you can even love a car to begin with and then be glad to get rid of it. So to me, the test drive begins once I own the car. You just have to put faith in your own judgement beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] You could use the power to drift the car and there would'nt be any danger in doing it as the car was so controllable [/ QUOTE ] I agree that some cars make that monouvre easier to handle than others, but a 4WD drift on tarmac, is a 4WD drift. You aint in that much control, cause all 4 wheels are sliding. On gravel, sure what fun. But on tarmac, the speeds or aggression you need to achieve a 4WD slide are IMO just dangerous. unless we're talking track here! , but then RWD would be my choice every time! [ QUOTE ] Leman, please stop mentioning that Taiwan Taxi, the A3 3.2! [/ QUOTE ] I merely said it wasn't the car it could have been, which is the concesous i'm getting from some of the people who have driven the R32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] So to me, the test drive begins once I own the car. You just have to put faith in your own judgement beforehand. [/ QUOTE ] fair point, but i always know within a mile whether or not a car is for me. I tend to get too seduced by looks , but then i am a designer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Excellent analysis there Mr me one of the reasons I nearly ended up not owning a new MK4 R32 was that I could'nt test drive before ordering, buying one, so I passed on one, until I drove a mate's 32 and then I like it so much................blah blah blah....... I also agree wholeheartedly, that things can work both way's, something that grab's you during a test drive, soon cheeses you off, on a day to day practical basis, to a point where the con's outweigh the pro's to such an extent, the car has to go ......... which we all know can be an expensive exercise............ I think this practicality issue raises it's head, in relation to some of the car test's, as these are almost a test drive impression competition, the one that spring's to mind would be the Clio 172, which Evo raved about as being fun, a good freind bought one and after the initial buzz, got thoroughly p*ss*d off with it very soon, with thing's like crap & uncomfortable driving position, trim quality, electrical faults, engine & box sounding rough as a Bear's butt after 8K plus (all his observations not mine) I personally find forum's, such as TSN, much better vehicles (ooh pun there folks) for getting the low down, from people with more knowledge, in most cases than motoring journo's (how hard can that be?) on the merits, good and bad on your chosen method of transport....... Leman as regards looks, I would probably make freddie Kruger look like a good catch, but the new R32 aint that bad looking, just not as "butch" as the MK4 but still looks good........ well all the female's surveyed like it!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] well all the female's surveyed like it!!!!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Course they do, it's wearing feckin lip gloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Well, after careful consideration, of your observation Leman which I have to admit,grudgingly, was rather a good description,best I have heard so far.......... and finishing off an original, to the proportions of something that is barely visible to the naked eye: I would rather have a lippy attracting face, than a steroid busting, jock strap pleasing one...............but dont tell the missus!!!!!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
encee Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The second is that I'd class a 'short' test drive as 60 minutes absolute minimum, but that to get me anywhere close to actually buying a car....I'd want it overnight. Ideally, for a full weekend. [/ QUOTE ] A very good point this, raised by MrMe. More out of nosiness, than anything else, I recently had a "test drive" (if you can call it that) at my local Ford dealer, of the new Focus ST. What a farce ! I drove it, accompanied by the sales woman, around a built up area in the town-centre, which was heavily congested, and, as such, was unable to reach a speed of any more than 40 mph ! The woman was adamant that it was "company policy" to allow this particular test-route only, because of insurance purposes. My question of "How do you expect anyone to buy a car that performs like this, with a test drive as limited as this ?", was met by an indifference that is typical of many dealers these days. My parting shot when leaving was that they wouldn`t be getting my business for an ST anyhow, even if I did decide to buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I honestly think, that if you are in the market for a car such as the ST, then buy one from the supermarket / importers, because service at our local Ford stealer is absolutely abysmal, so the issue of having 3rd year dealer warranty, is pretty much useless. I think that's encee experience just back's this up, they dont give a monkey's! Vauxhall exactly the same down here, and you thought VW stealers were bad???? oops..tin opener just taken to a can of worm's there!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 This is a little off topic but the more expensive the car is, the more 'bowing & scraping' the salesperson will do - they like the smell of money! This isn't always so of course but it is generally. Having a good trusting relationship with your dealer will get you much longer test drives, also if you are flexible as to when....That's how I turned an hour into an afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Prior to buying my first M3 I drove the demonstrator up the A19 having already spent an hour or so pootling around town in it. The salesman who was with me (I didn't know them too well at the time) deliberately pointed me in the direction of a VERY long straight where it is known it's impossible for police cars to park on either side and said (and I remember it well)..."Ok, let's go." I'll not say what speed we reached but suffice to say it was hard foot down, through the gears, and up to 6,000rpm in 6th. That's what I call a 'proper' examination! The funny thing is that as I took my foot off the throttle he said 'Now we find out if the brakes work'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 To be fair my local VW stealer are a really good outfit, ,but the bottom line is, the car has to be what I want, irrespective of the stealer service, but if the stealer offer's good service then I will pay the extra and do my business there. Otherwise as I said, if buying something like an ST, I would go to the retailer with cheapest deal............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Bloody hell Mrme! you will be admitting to driving at speeds, in excess of the prevailing speed limit next, and admitting to contravening, numerous sections of the good old highway code i.e: Driving dangerously!!!!!!!! As we all must recite, as that band of upright law abiding, they are only acting in our interests, band of citizens AKA: The speed camera partnership brotherhood........ say: SPEED KILLS! Just a question or two on this particular test drive: Were you fully aware of your excessive speed, due to visual awareness of the speedo? Or were you just admiring the scenery while engaging in this totally reckless behaviour? Were you wearing a grin, the size of cheddar gorge while burying your right foot into the beemers footwell shagpile..? Have you shown any remorse since the said TD, so as to indicate, that you will not partake of such wanton bad behaviour, while at the wheel of a vehicle again? Well two out four right answers ai'nt bad.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Ahem. Yes I was aware of my speed, throughout. Yes it was no doubt reckless. No I haven't shown remorse for it. The point being, even in an M3 with an awful lot more power than anything we discussed the other day....you know how hard you're accelerating and you know your speed.... But we've been there, and you lot reckon it's all silence and quilts, so we'll not go back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Do I detect a slight sign of "guilty as charged melud!" Just glad to know that you are just as bad, as the rest of us, given the opportunity Mrme!.............. Makes me feel kind of human again.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] No I haven't shown remorse for it. [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simkna Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I managed to get a really good long test drive in the Focus ST - twice. Lots of in town, out of town, twistys, straights and roundabouts. And the result.... dare I say it, IMHO the ST is just as good to drive as the GTi, if not even a little better (blasphemer). Si. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I can imagine simkna. The only focus i've ever driven was a 2.0 Ghia back in 1998. It was a blast on the weekend i had it. I'm just a badge snob though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I'm just a badge snob though. [/ QUOTE ] Hang on, how's that, I thought you had a VW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simkna Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 LOL. Remind me what the letters VW stand for again? Si. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleywater Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Interesting subject there Mrme "badge snobbery" I have to say that, Beemers & Mercs have slipped down that particular greasy pole in recent years, and Audi has been steadily climbing it...... Kudos, without the "look at that Rich b*st*rd tag" attitude, which is so "admired" by the british public.........we all love a loser in this country....... we are all closet, Edddie the Eagle fan's..... That's where the old VW comes into it's own......you got cash, which you cant afford to flash....... All the really filthy rich f*ck*rs, drive VW's...... coz they would'nt want that man from her majesty's beeswax depot, to know about that, large wedge, hiding under the mattress. That is why as JC would say, you can pull up anywhere in a golf and nobody looks down there nose at you........ It's a well known fact, that the majority of "badge snobs" buy there car's on the drip, at the expense of their sky subscription and various other essential's of life........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Also i live in an area where car jacking and burglaries are not unknown. I used to have a BMW 3 series sport coupe, which i was waiting to be nicked (not a nice feeling that). The GTI, when parked facing the house, is blissfully unassuming. (while we're on the subject, anyone seen my car crime TV ad ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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