ChrisBuer Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Call me insane, but let me just run with this and then you can tell me if I’m muttering like a mad man My R32 is on order and will be available for a September 1st delivery and I’m beside myself with excitement. I used to have a JCW Mini (210bhp model) which was a real hoot, but unfortunately not the most practical of cars. My “weekend” drive is a Caterham R300 which is keeping me mobile over the summer before the R arrives. However, a friend of my (who works for Ford) said that I’d be crazy not to consider the cheaper and “faster” Focus ST over the R32?!?!? I have had a brief test drive of the ST and thought it felt very strong in the mid range with good torque and when driving the R, it didn’t seem to pull as hard. However, when looking at the clock I realised that it was and that the R had just a very smooth delivery of power. So my question is this, money aside (as whatever I save on buying an ST the misses will spend anyway), which car is best? My main criteria for the new car is as follows: - Good in all weather - Unique - Useable performance - Looks - Sound - Handling I know that the R come with more equipment, but as I’m a car enthusiast, it’s the performance that I’m more interested in. I think because the ST has a turbo, it feels quicker than it actually is? I’m 99% certain that I’ll hold my order on the R and get it in September, but I’d just like some thoughts and opinions. Remember, cost is not in the equation, I’m looking at both cars as practical performance machines. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I'd factor in the number of months or years that you will have the next car. The R32 will pay dividends on residuals and resale value. The Essex express won't hold value nearly as well and image wise it's chavtastic. If you want all out ball blasting power maybe a Scooby or an Evo would be more the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeysteve Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 We all know the reasons for buying an R, so here's a few reasons not to buy a focus: if you drive 10 miles you'll see 5 other cars like yours in 3 years it will lose 60% of it's value things will fall off it wont make you smile everytime you get in it everytime you see an R you'll kick yourself these are just a few of my reasons anyway. But you pays your money and...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindaloo Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 The Ford is good value for money, but a close look over the fixtures & fittings & the general feel of the car will tell you they are not in the same class. It also has some hideous touches... awful ST badges on front wings, really poor quality fog light surrounds etc etc. I think the .:R beats the Ford in all of your 6 criteria. -Good in all weather NO DOUBT - Unique NO CAR IS UNIQUE BUT MORE EXCLUSIVE THAN THE FORD - Useable performance V6 OVER A 4 POT TURBO ANYDAY - Looks NO CONTEST - Sound FORD SOUNDS GOOD BUT .:R SOUNDS BETTER - Handling 4MOTION GIVES .:R THE EDGE If price really doesn't matter then the Ford wouldn't make any sense. If performance is ALL that matters then I'm not sure the .:R is the car for you either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks3 Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 - Good in all weather - Unique - Useable performance - Looks - Sound - Handling Sums up the R and non apply to Focus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt R Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] V6 OVER A 4 POT TURBO ANYDAY [/ QUOTE ] I thought the ford was a 5 pot??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindaloo Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] V6 OVER A 4 POT TURBO ANYDAY [/ QUOTE ] I thought the ford was a 5 pot??? [/ QUOTE ] Oops your dead right silly me, I'll rephrase then... I much prefer a V6 to a car that's either got one cylinder missing or an extra one for luck (with a turbo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeesh Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Ive had an encounter with a focus ST in my MK5 R32 and although it kept up intially i was pulling away at the top end. As you mentioned the R does have an exceptionally smooth delivery of power which makes u think its not as fast as it is. My conclusion would be to stick with the R, it may not feel as fast as the ST but trust me its faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBuer Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Cheers for the comments back guys Well I have to admit that I love the R and when I test drove it I knew it was the car for me. However, my friend keeps banging on about how good the Focus ST is and I thought it would be stupid to dismiss it because it's a Ford (I'm not a big Ford fan really). As we get so much rain in this country, I vowed that my next car would be good in the wet! I'm certain that the R32 would be a better wet weather car (in terms of grip and handling) compared to the Focus. In my eyes its definitely more unique and I like to be different, especially when I live in Essex and everyone here seems to be Ford mad! Looks and sound I prefer the R. Everyone raves about the sound of the ST and yeah it did sound good on my brief test drive but nothing like the R. I'd imagine the Miltek on the R will make it sound amazing and is something I'll definitely be putting on!! The only thing that made me think was "useable performance". I mean the torque on the ST is very good indeed and it pulls strongly from low revs. However, I think the R does this as well, but it's just so smooth that you don't notice it as much! Perhaps now I have to convince my friend that I made the right choice….once that Miltek is on, I'll take him out for a blast Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] We all know the reasons for buying an R, so here's a few reasons not to buy a focus: if you drive 10 miles you'll see 5 other cars like yours in 3 years it will lose 60% of it's value things will fall off it wont make you smile everytime you get in it everytime you see an R you'll kick yourself these are just a few of my reasons anyway. But you pays your money and...etc [/ QUOTE ] This is the No1 reason why you are buying you .:R. If I wasn't getting a new house I'd have one on order as well, but babies, non-working wifey, new house and all that mean .:R is a long way off.......... maybe I should consider a 5dr ST !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] As we get so much rain in this country, I vowed that my next car would be good in the wet! I'm certain that the R32 would be a better wet weather car (in terms of grip and handling) compared to the Focus. [/ QUOTE ] I have a Mk IV and over a couple of years have forgotten about things like traction, wheelspin etc. as you just don't have to think about them - when you want to go forward you just push the pedal - haldex is ace but the S4s I tried were even better so seriously think about this side of things before you are tempted to FWD ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 If you can afford an .:R32 then you buy one over the ST. The ST is a good car, but with the potential for odd colour bumpers and worse depreciation you'd on;y opt for it if you had a budget (max) of £18k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32HAZ Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Drove the ST and the R32 back to back. Both driven hard and enoyed both. It was VERY close as the ST was a fantastic car. But in the end the 4WD, quality and noise swayed it for the R32. I also like the way the R32 is understated. I hate to say it but Clarkson summed up the ST correctly calling it the ASBO - its image and styling were not for me - VERY VERY good car though, as a raw driving experience it was slightly better than the R32 IMHO. I got the feeling you could thrash it and throw it around with more ease, and generally care less about it (if you know what I mean) than the 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKLooney Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 ST, £17000 New, £7500 after 3 yrs, you loose £9500 R32, £24000 New, £13000 after 3 yrs, you loose £11000 Is a R32 worth £1500? This is the question you should be asking I suppose fuel, insurance etc should be taken into the equation (did anyone actually pay £24k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6tas Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] ST, £17000 New, £7500 after 3 yrs, you loose £9500 R32, £24000 New, £13000 after 3 yrs, you loose £11000 Is a R32 worth £1500? This is the question you should be asking I suppose fuel, insurance etc should be taken into the equation (did anyone actually pay £24k) [/ QUOTE ] Its all relative fella. All cars loose you money. If you go out to buy a car with the depreciation in mind then you might as well not bother. Ask anyone on here what they would prefer to drive and i bet you the "ASBO" doesnt even get a mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 That's it - many of us appreciate the ST but all (I think!) of us prefer the R32. And that goes for the ST v GTI as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] ST, £17000 New, £7500 after 3 yrs, you loose £9500 R32, £24000 New, £13000 after 3 yrs, you loose £11000 Is a R32 worth £1500? This is the question you should be asking I suppose fuel, insurance etc should be taken into the equation (did anyone actually pay £24k) [/ QUOTE ] Mercedes SL500 AMG - £86K new - £26K after 2 years, so £60,000 depreciation over two years (a friend of mine sold his at the end of last year). Go figure Cars aren't an investment though. Buy it. Drive it. Spend money on it. Sell it. Lose money. The end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBuer Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Well this is it Mook. I mean to be honest I'm looking at this car as being great fun to drive and unique. All of my cars to date have been good handling (as I think you get more enjoyment out of this rather than raw power) so this is important also. My last car (the Mini) was fantastic but it really wasn't great when the roads were wet. It would understeer at rather low speeds and trying to "use" the performance in these conditions was nigh on impossible! I always loved the MK4 R32 (the guy across the road from me has one) as they look great and the sound….oh wow the sound!! I always said that I'd like to get an R32 but then a friend of mine got a Focus RS and that was a stonking car! It didn't have the power or sound of the Golf but boy did it fly! It was pretty unique as well Obviously resale value is important at some stage, but I'd give more consideration to how good the overall package of the car was! For their prices, I really think both cars are very good value indeed! I think what's really swayed it is the fact the R is 4WD! I've never had a 4WD car before so really don't know what to expect (I've only ever driven FWD and RWD). However I'm sure it's going to be fun finding out. I just cannot comprehend not having any problems with traction / wheelspin, etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Get yourself along to one of the Tyresmoke Meets and ask someone to take you out in theirs - your more than welcome to come out for a spin in mine if you ever get over to a Windsor meet - check the Meets and Trackdays forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBuer Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Oh believe me Mook I will do! Yours sounds like an absolute animal haha!! Just in a nutshell, can you give me your impressions of 4WD…your first feelings of it, etc? Is it something you need to get used to like RWD? Do you have to learn to power out of corners differently, etc? I only had a brief test drive of the R and didn't really "explore" the joys of 4WD, so I've been trying to imagine what it's like! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKLooney Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Mercedes SL500 AMG - £26K after 2 years [/ QUOTE ] I'd have given him £26.5k for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Just in a nutshell, can you give me your impressions of 4WD…your first feelings of it, etc? Is it something you need to get used to like RWD? Do you have to learn to power out of corners differently, etc? [/ QUOTE ] I've had AWD cars for a long time now, but know that I won't go for a FWD car again. It drives me nuts when I get in Mrs Mook's Passat! You don't need to "get used to it", because you'll find the car just sticks. The ESP on the R32 is great for digging you out of the sh*t if you take it beyond its comfort zone. Yes, you do apply the power differently when you're coming out of corners, but a standard R32 will still understeer. The R32's Haldex based 4WD system is not the same as an Impreza or an Evo. As with everything, it's not until you've pushed the car properly that you know how far you can take it without going off the road. I prefer a car with very slight oversteer, which is why roundabouts and tracks are more fun now I have the car set up how I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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