martin275 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] For example I'd take a VRS over the any day of the week. [/ QUOTE ] Does the 1 series get dragged into every discussion on this forum? Why not an A3? That's just as expensive but doesn't drive as well. Sorry....no further comment your honour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Anyway Ari, if you ever take Dawn F out, a Cayenne is about the only thing that could support her super sized bum [/ QUOTE ] Not very nice. [/ QUOTE ] .... But very funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Does the 1 series get dragged into every discussion on this forum? [/ QUOTE ] ....There's a heck of a lot of very active TSNers who drive Audis and who have hang-ups about BMWs, probably as Beemers are their main rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Martin, trust me we've all tried at some point. I too would far sooner have a than an A3, though that's a relative thing as I tend to think they're both tiny little girl's cars. Er, anyway... back to 4x4's. I can almost understand cars like the Cayenne and X5 that don't even pretend to have any offroad ability. What I can't understand is people who buy full size Range Rovers and Landcruisers without ever intending to go offroad - because on road neither of them are even close to being as comfortable, refined, fast or safe as a similarly priced executive saloon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Ari, I have a revolutionary idea for you. Are you sitting down? ... Good. Now, it seems to me that you don't like the concept of a powerful 4x4. How about, then, we agree that you (take this bit slowly now...) don't buy one? How does that sound? That way, you don't get to waste any of your money on one. Of course, if someone else thinks it's not a waste, they can buy one. If you spot their one on the road, you can mutter under your breath. Then, passers-by will think the mug in the Turbo S is a fool easily parted from their money, and the bloke in the cab muttering under his breath is slightly paranoid and in need of counselling . All will then be fair? OK? Seriously, others seem to think they're worthwhile. "Shortarse women", as someone has soooo kindly described my 5'1" wife, like being able to see out through the windscreen. And, on balance, I think that this benefits all of us. So they get 4x4s, even though they don't want to go off-road. Not all of them ask for performance cars, mind; she does like to be able to get a move on from time to time but a 3 litre diesel is good enough. Mind you, she loves her X3 and says she doesn't care what it looks like, so I do have worries about her personal automotive style viewpoint. Ah well, my job is just to write the cheque. My business partner, on the other hand, lives on a former farmhouse. To get to his house, you cross: 1x cattle grid 2x fields 1x additional cattle grid 1x level crossing including embankment 1x additional field Not surprisingly, he drives 4x4s. Last time he had a Discovery. This time, he wanted a car that bits don't fall off so he bought a Cayenne S. Me, I like low slung cars that go round corners properly so I have a 911 and a 330Ci. If we need to meet, we do so at the office or my place. Not his place. I have driven a Cayenne S on an off-road course, though. Its abilities stunned me, even on standard road tyres. All those of you who say the Cayenne can't go off-road: shut up until you've tried it. Finally, consider this point. I think we can all agree that footballers earn too much money. Also, that we wouldn't want to spend too long stuck in a conversation with their wives. So, what better way is there to: - remove as much cash as is possible from a footballer, and - alert us to the imminent arrival of his wife than the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Brilliant post, patently . It says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Or to use less words….people should be able to buy what they want, it’s their money and their decision. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a Cayenne Turbo S or a 1 series, it’s their choice. However, we can still have our own opinion on the matter e.g. The X3 is rubbish (because it is!), nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Brilliant post, patently . It says it all. [/ QUOTE ] aww shucks.... Actually, Martin, the X3 is bl00dy good. It just looks awful and costs an arm and a leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 ...and has a terrible ride (based on a brief journey in my cousins 2.0D SE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Very good patently! It's true I did the Cayenne a disservice in my earlier post - with sensible sized wheels and tyres with a bit of tread I understand it is every bit as good off-road as anything else its size short of a Camel Trophy Range Rover. And, as is the tradition with Porsche, it will improve with each evolution. If I ever need to do seriously long trips through inhospitable territory (and I don't mean Luton), I'll buy a Landcruiser. If I ever move to a farm in the middle of nowhere and need something capable of properly tough off-roading (without trusting my life to its reliability), or I just get the serious offroad/green laning bug, I'll buy a Range Rover (a proper one, not one of them footballer's jobs). If I ever move to patently's business partner's house, or anywhere else down a rutted lane that might get snowed up, assuming I'm not particularly fussed about fuel bills, I'll buy a Cayenne S without even looking at an X5, ML, RX, Q7 or ToeRag. Until any of those scenarios arise, I'll stick with cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 don't buy one Class patently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Ari, I have a revolutionary idea for you. Are you sitting down? ... Good. Now, it seems to me that you don't like the concept of a powerful 4x4. How about, then, we agree that you (take this bit slowly now...) don't buy one? How does that sound? That way, you don't get to waste any of your money on one. Of course, if someone else thinks it's not a waste, they can buy one. [/ QUOTE ] What, you mean... Just... Bugger, I never thought of that. Wonder if I can get my deposit back..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Does the 1 series get dragged into every discussion on this forum? [/ QUOTE ] ....There's a heck of a lot of very active TSNers who drive Audis and who have hang-ups about BMWs, probably as Beemers are their main rival. [/ QUOTE ] NOT GUILTY!! There are seriously nice beemers out there!!! I would have a 3 series cab any day!!! or an M3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Thing is though... as you said, Ari is fully entitled to his view. And as this is a discussion forum he's fully entitled to express that view here. But those who would defend the 4x4 always seem obliged to get awfully defensive about the whole thing. Almost as if they know Ari was right all along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossG Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] You don't go in the back with the top down at 100mph. [/ QUOTE ] Somebody should tell Lagoo that I have very vivid memories of sitting in the back of his M3 Cab at 120 + mph at Le Mans, whilst trying to hold on to the plastic bin that we had just bought to keep our beer in It was just a tad blustery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Ari is both perfectly right and perfectly wrong. The Cayenne Turbo S is indeed a completely flawed and so-very-ironic monster. 500 brake, 20 inch wheels and low profile tyres. High profile, off-road tyres would flex badly in the corners, pushing a 4x4 like that into roll oversteer. They would wear quickly, offer poor dead-centre steering feel, squeal and reduce mpg with drag. The low profiles fitted on the other hand will aquaplane in the wet and be totally useless on a greasy muddy wet field. Ever tried an RS6 on 19s in the alps without snow-chains? Completely f--king useless - the wide tyres have zero grip. However, Porsche decided to launch the Cayenne as their new third model over an M5 rival saloon as they thought there would be a demand for it. They were right. Porsche sell the Cayenne in huge numbers because people 'want one'. Porsche designed 'a 4x4 that most people will never take off road' as that is what the customers want! Manufacturers sell cars in white as people seriously buy them! A white Sportback on wheel-trims occasionally frequents my office. Yuk. Mercedes only sell the SLR with an auto-box. Ditto Audi with the RS6 and S8. Such sporting cars should have full control and at least offer a manual. Yet if you did buy the manual option, you'd get shafted come resale. Hell, in the early 90s, most would agree that Ferraris' open metal gate gearshift was one the vital ingredients that made a Ferrari a Ferrari. Yet the vast majority of 360s/430s were/are ordered with the F1 box.... Ditto Lamborghini with their e-gear. When I jumped in a Murcielago a few years back, one of the contributing factors to the hair standing up on the back of my neck was having a pin ball machine-like gearstick in the palm of my left hand. Dropping the huge counter-sprung guillotine door behind me might have had something to do with it though.... Audi launched their A4 Cab with an off-the-shelf Golf GTi engine and fwd transmission. Not my taste, but there is demand for it! Not everyone wants monster power. Being a four pot, the ecomony / performance balance is excellent. The manufacturers make and sell all these cars because there is a demand for them. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexc Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but don't pass judgement until you've actually driven one. I'd definitely choose this over the Range Rover as it doesn't make you sea-sick when cornering! [/ QUOTE ] Rather ironic that you make these two statements in the same post! Try a Full-size-grown-up 4.2 S/C and THEN form an opinion! A proper 4x4 that actually can go off road! [/ QUOTE ] I have done, i've driven dozens of Range Rovers, many different models. It doesn't matter how big or powerfull an engine you put in them, the chassis is still sloppy in terms of handling. The new Sport is an exception to the rule (i'd rate that on par with the X5). Although, none of them handle as well as a Cayenne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The manufacturers make and sell all these cars because there is a demand for them. [/ QUOTE ] They also generate the demand for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Don't go disagreeing with The Ian C. He's said now, so it must be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The manufacturers make and sell all these cars because there is a demand for them. [/ QUOTE ] They also generate the demand for them [/ QUOTE ] Good point James! Where's that Sniff Petrol ad' with the BMW-badged dog turd when you need it. Edit - found it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Don't go disagreeing with The Ian C. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Good point James! [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The "ultimate performance 4x4" on Top Gear last night pretty much summed up the genre for me. Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. Over 500hp, monsterously quick, absolutely crap off road. Why? Because no one makes offroad tyres big enough for the 20 inch rims, and you can't fit 19 inch rims because they won't fit over the brakes they need to fit to try and stop such a heavy car with so much performance. So, if the whole "offroad" thing is utterly pointless, why not just buy a proper car? Pointless vehicle. Still, no doubt the Americans lap them up. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, what he said ! I love Porkers normally, but this is a big fat pointless thing with a terrible image, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Hurrah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 The Cayenne makes sense in every way!! If it didnt sell, Porsche wouldnt make it!! If i could afford one I would buy one and It would make me better than all of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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