hackyA3 Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Hey I understand that the S3 and TT 225 bhp engines are the same. I also think that the S3 and TT engine will share the same mounts as my A3s 1.8 (non turbo) engine. Does anyone know if this is correct? I am wanting to put either an S3 or TT 225bhp 1.8t engine into my 1997 A3 1.8 (8L). Would this be possible? What would i require? - The engine, wiring loom and ecu? And does anyone know how hard this would be and know of a company that would be able to do this swap and what price i would be looking to pay to have it fitted? What year would the s3/tt need to be for the engine to fit? Thanks a lot HackyA3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 It will cost you an absolute fortune to do and insure. There are hundreds if not thousands of S3's built at factory, all off the shelf ready to go with no hassels, no imcompatabilities, or problems to overcome. you would be far better selling yours and buying a S3 to start with. Engine transplants, only tend to be viable, when that option was never a factory option. Ie Ive seen the S3 lump in a Lupo GTI and that was a sweet install, that worked, but whats the point into an A3, that was built at factory by Audi anyway? probably not what you want to hear, but it makes sense. A standard S3 (or even a mildly modded one) would be: cheaper to insure factory built has everything ready matched to the performance, ie brakes, suspension, clutch, quattro, gearbox, fuelpump, twin IC's, twin cats, exhaust, battery alternater, clocks, speedo's Lovely S3 recaro's etc etc the list is endless! and easily tunable to 265bhp + probably cheaper than a transplant+ insurance together selling an A3 with engine transplant would imho be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 I understand its not the most sensible way of approaching it, but the car i have cost very little and has an immaculate paint job and i have already uprated the suspension with coilovers and i have carried out a number of styling modifications. The only thing it lacks is serious speed and power. I wouldnt be able to afford to buy an s3 and i will not be declaring the insurance company wif the swap, until i have saved up enough to insure it. I know all the dangers with this bt thats the way im going to do it. Any advice with fittig a TT or S3 225bhp engine to my A3 or other opinions or experience with this? Cheers for the help so far tho! Thanks HackyA3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rball Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 You do realise that that would be fraud? If you do not declare that the engine has been swapped, that invalidates your MOT and Tax and hence would be completely illegal as is driving without insurance. The fact that you would "be insured" on a normal A3 would mean nothing...Think of it this way, if you hit someone else, you would be in serious trouble as you would technically be uninsured! It's like buying a Ferrari and telling the insurance company that you have a Fiat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNobody Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I wouldnt be able to afford to buy an s3 and i will not be declaring the insurance company wif the swap, until i have saved up enough to insure it. I know all the dangers with this bt thats the way im going to do it. [/ QUOTE ]After posting this, I'd be surprised if you got any advice other than "don't be such a twat". What if you can never afford the insurance? Would you continue to drive the car uninsured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rball Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 How can you afford to have an S3 unit dropped into an A3 but cannot afford the insurance? Like Paul said, this will costs thousands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sufu Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I understand its not the most sensible way of approaching it, but the car i have cost very little and has an immaculate paint job and i have already uprated the suspension with coilovers and i have carried out a number of styling modifications. The only thing it lacks is serious speed and power. I wouldnt be able to afford to buy an s3 and i will not be declaring the insurance company wif the swap, until i have saved up enough to insure it. I know all the dangers with this bt thats the way im going to do it. Any advice with fittig a TT or S3 225bhp engine to my A3 or other opinions or experience with this? Cheers for the help so far tho! Thanks HackyA3 [/ QUOTE ] T.W.A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srcoates Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 You have clearly thought of 'the dangers of this' and how it relates to you, but didn't spend long enough thinking about the effects on the family of the kid you could knock down, or the implications on another party in the case of an accident. Cars aren't worth risking that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rball Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 [ QUOTE ] i will <font color="red"> not be declaring the insurance company wif the swap, until i have saved up enough to insure it. </font> I know all the dangers with this bt thats the way im going to do it. [/ QUOTE ] As mentioned, you will immediately void your car insurance and legal cover, you will also be breaking the law, as the DVLA also need to know what engine is in the car for their records, tax, and MOT. I hope no one gives you any more info, as its not in the spirt of Tyresmoke, to entertain stupid idoits with no insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 I am not going to be carrying out the work until my insurance runs out on the normal A3 and also to build up another 1 years no claims before i try to insure the A3 with the engine swap. Im not going to ruin this thread with an argument over insurance and the like but i reckon most ppl have at least some modification that likely voids their insurance on the roads, even as little as a air filter/alloy wheels/ or window tints will void insurance. Anyway i have decided to go wif Elephant.co.uk for insuring the car with the engine swap as they gave me a reasonable quote for the swapped car. Anyway, can any1 get back to the topic and discuss probable difficulties with the swap and any knowlegde that would help? Cheers Again HackyA3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Oh aye and i forgot to say i wouldnt drive it without insurance. Never have, never will. All of my cars have been 100% legal and i have always driver 100% legal. The car would simply not have been drivin until i could afford insurance, at which point i would have the work done and then swapped and declared so sorry for any misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChriS3 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Hey I understand that the S3 and TT 225 bhp engines are the same. I also think that the S3 and TT engine will share the same mounts as my A3s 1.8 (non turbo) engine. Does anyone know if this is correct? I am wanting to put either an S3 or TT 225bhp 1.8t engine into my 1997 A3 1.8 (8L). Would this be possible? What would i require? - The engine, wiring loom and ecu? And does anyone know how hard this would be and know of a company that would be able to do this swap and what price i would be looking to pay to have it fitted? [/ QUOTE ] Don't forget that the S3 and TT 225 both have 6 speed gearboxes, haldex awd transmission, intercoolers, different pipework... Mounting the engine into the bay wouldn't be too much of a problem, but hooking things up will be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 I take it all S3's and TT's are AWD and not FWD? I wouldnt know what is involved with changing a FWD to an AWD car, is it very difficult? I was thinking that i would try pick up a FWD engine but are they all AWD's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 All S3s and TTs with the 225bhp engine are 4 wheel drive. The floor pan is totally different (ie driveshaft/propshaft/reardiff have to fit) so I would say that it is a non starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 How about the S3 TT 210 engine? Would that be possible, iv heard it has a stronger engine anyway and would be a better engine to swap in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Practically the same engine. As I said all S3s are 4WD. The 210 engine was released so that it was, albeit marginally, slower than the TT225 which was the flagship sports model for the floor pan. The 210s were in reality not much slower than the 225 S3s which were released at a later date. The only difference as I recall was the engine map from Audi. The "stronger engine" thing is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Only 225 1.8T FWD engine i know of is going to be in the late spec SEAT Cupra R. I still think its a complete non starter, and financial money pit. It will be like lighting a barbque with £50 notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackyA3 Posted June 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Right thanks a lot for all your help with this. This is the kind of information i was wanting to hear (although not really cos my plans are foiled!) as i didnt know if it would work or not. I will probably just save up the money for an s3 and start my journey there. Thanks for all the helpful posts here. I will put another post on about my other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hus99 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 dont bother declarin it to the insurance, just b carefull. big waste of money to declare it.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo283 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry to jump in at the end, and I'm probably only repeating the other more knowlegable guys, but this project would be an absolute mare. If this is the only car you can afford to run, and you did decide to drop the new engine in, imagine how long it would take to do the work properly? Weeks. Can you hack the bus for this long?! If you're not looking to do it for another year or so, you'll have more no-claims to count against a legit S3, plus any cash you save in that time. You'll be well on your way to S3-ness. Perhaps it would be more feasible as a side project on a second car or weekend hobby if you were particularly handy with a spanner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 [ QUOTE ] dont bother declarin it to the insurance, just b carefull. big waste of money to declare it.!! [/ QUOTE ] try reading the post again. Not telling insurance is plain stupidity. It voids your insurance, and legal cover. You bowl someone over, or crash into them, either killing them at worst, or causing them injury at best, and the insurance co's and legal eagles come to YOU. Its not just costs of the crash, repairs/replacement its medical care, specialist independant appointments/treatments, potential loss of the other persons earnings, compensation for being prevented to follow their chosen career path, the list is endless. and thats only if they LIVE. It happens. It did to a colleague of mine, routine trip home, and had a near fatal accident, <font color="blue">caused by someone else * </font> , the case is still going through the motions. The insurers are picking up the tabs and its running into hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation, for injuries, and loss of future earning potential. <font color="blue">* caused by someone else</font> could easily have been a driver with no insurance, or void because of undisclosed modifications to the power of the vehicle and you can bet the insurance companies will check the vehicles, if it means not paying out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvantSE Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 I am wondering if not declaring an engine swap is obtaining a pecuniary advantage, i.e. obtaining insurance by dishonest means. We have arrested and reported people for this offence though I have never encountered it for this particular set of circumstances - usually for stating they have a full licence when they are actually on a provisional, or have no licence. I would be keen to put it to the test though, so let me know when you come into my force area and I will be only too happy to assist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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