Smudge Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Ok, so she claims I'll end up killing myself. To be honest, I have no idea what she's on about. I'm very calm on the road, and drive carefully & considerately wherever I travel. Anyway, the new job means I'm commuting to SW London pretty much every day now. I have a Co. car that I use, but if I wanted I could leave it parked up at the office over night & get myself a bike license & a bike, then ride in in about 40 mins, rather than the potential 90 mins + it is probably going to take when the schools go back. Does anyone else here ride to work daily? If so, how far, what sort of route & if similar to mine, is it hard work? I'd have to go M4, A4, then through a variation of back roads & main roads to my office just south of river at Vauxhall. I thought about a Ducatti Monster. There seems to be a number of early ones around 3-4k out there, so nothing stupid nor really expensive (unless they have a habit going pop after a certain age / mileage?). However, other than the odd 'spin' I've not riden any real distance before. Am I mad? And how do I convince the gf it really does make sense other than the fact that I'll be home earlier, and up later in the morning? Come on TSN, help me out here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2 Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 it will take you a while to get a liscence i believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiefox Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Tricky one Smudge.....I can well see the appeal of the bike in cutting the travel time, avoiding the queues etc etc.... BUT, if it were my partner I'd feel the same - at the risk of upsetting the bikers on here I just don't feel that bikes are very safe. Not even to do with the bikers themselves very often (or at least no more than car drivers exist just as do bikers)- just the fact that cars don't look, don't give them room, and don't let them through. Lorries seem to be even worse. The roads are full of huge holes, surfaces get covered in gunk and then of course it rains!! From a professional point of view everytime I used to visit the Spinal Unit at Oswestry I'd say 80% of the patients were young males, and 70% of that 80% were injured in motorbike accidents. OK, thats where they ended up in a group for specialist treatment, so of course it looks worse than if they were spread across the country, but its still a sobering realisation. Personally - if I were your gf I'd be extremely worried everytime you took the bike out. BUT, as someone's partner you can't expect to control their choices and I'm sure she doesn't want to do that. She is probably just worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Convincing anyone that bikes are a good idea is difficult, Smudge. They are more dangerous than cars and of course that's a fact rather than an opinion. I passed my test at 18, but didn't have a bike until I was about 30 as that was the first time I had enough spare disposable cash after buying a house and I simply wasn't allowed to have one whilst I lived with my parents, they felt that strongly about it, I'd have been kicked out. I think getting some good protective gear is important too, both for your saftey (obviously) but also to make your family feel more comfortable about you having a bike. With reference to Lottie's experience with the aftermath of bike accidents, a good back protector is the best £100 you can spend after the basics, in my opinion. It won't save you from every eventuality, but something as simple as sliding off can cause a serious back injury if you slide into a kerb. Sorry that's not much help is it? As for the bike, As much as I love them, I wouldn't personally buy a Duke if you're going to be putting a lot of miles on it. I think of Ducatis as the Ferraris of the bike world as far as running them goes. What about something in a similar style but Japanese? At least it won't leak oil and the electrics will probably work. Sorry to you Duke owners, but you know what I mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_ Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 What about doing an advanced riding qualification such as a bikesafe course or IAM. Although, you may need some road experience before starting to do them though. Unfortunately people will worry about you whilst out on the bike, doing an advanced qualification and wearing good protective clothing may help to settle their minds. As can the type of bike you ride. If you aim to commute in all weathers try and avoid a ducati, I've not had any first hand experience with them but i've heard storys of dodgy electrics and hefty servicing. Aim more towards something Japanese or maybe even a BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Ok, so she claims I'll end up killing myself. To be honest, I have no idea what she's on about. I'm very calm on the road, and drive carefully & considerately wherever I travel. [/ QUOTE ] Smudge - I posted a thread similar a while back in here - to be honest, I've more or less given up on the idea as I've accepted there is a good chance I'll turn myself into a grease spot on the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Convincing anyone that bikes are a good idea is difficult, Smudge. They are more dangerous than cars and of course that's a fact rather than an opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Aint that the truth! [ QUOTE ] I think getting some good protective gear is important too, both for your saftey (obviously) but also to make your family feel more comfortable about you having a bike. With reference to Lottie's experience with the aftermath of bike accidents, a good back protector is the best £100 you can spend after the basics, in my opinion. It won't save you from every eventuality, but something as simple as sliding off can cause a serious back injury if you slide into a kerb. Sorry that's not much help is it? [/ QUOTE ] The trouble is that we “risk compensate”. The more protective gear you wear you’ll feel invincible and take greater risks. [ QUOTE ] As for the bike, As much as I love them, I wouldn't personally buy a Duke if you're going to be putting a lot of miles on it. I think of Ducatis as the Ferraris of the bike world as far as running them goes. What about something in a similar style but Japanese? At least it won't leak oil and the electrics will probably work. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed! The risks can be dramatically reduced with good training. But when your numbers up, its up! I rarely ride to work now, to much agro, if idiots aren’t deliberately trying to kill you they’re doing it by accident. If you’re dead/hurt does it matter who’s fault it was or if the cretin meant to do it? Many bikers filter too fast. Overtake/undertake right next to the target vehicle when they have the rest of the lane/road to make a bigger safety zone (if a lane is say 10’ wide and the biker is 18” from the side of the vehicle he/she is overtaking). I have followed ‘Black Rats’ through East London’s Lime house Link Tunnel doing join-the-dots on the manhole covers (manhole covers are always on bends in the road cause that’s where the blockages occur in the drains). These are all areas where the rider is not being as responsible for their own safety as they could be. They’re not breaking any laws or adding danger to other road users. They’re just not effectively managing their own safety. Add rider/driver error and we all know the results. However good you are in the car, will still leave you short on a bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avus_Bub Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Great post Sneaky It's such a tough call this one but IMO you're never too late to take up biking, it's just the level you progress to.............. BUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Great post Sneaky [/ QUOTE ] Nope? I forgot to say "just get out there and get your first bike"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The trouble is that we “risk compensate”. The more protective gear you wear you’ll feel invincible and take greater risks. [/ QUOTE ] It might be just me I suppose, but I never felt anything more than 'a bit less vulnerable' when wearing a back protector and everything else to go with it. I've never felt invincible at all, but I've felt very uneasy when not wearing some of the gear. It's like the old addage about how much to spend on a helmet, £60 or £500?... It depends on how much your head is worth. Ok, so I know the price isn't totally refelected in the protection afforded, but it's still a case of buying the best protection you can in my opinion, and I don't think that would do any harm when trying to convince family that a bike's a good idea. I really do think you'd struggle to convince them you're better off without protective gear as you'll go slower. Yes I know you didn't mean that, but you later said that others will kill you by accident, if not on purpose, so why not reduce the risk as much as you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Agreed, you are 100% correct, get the best protection you can. But if you go under a car/truck/lorry, that £500 helmet will prolly break your neck. The 1 piece made to measure racing leathers with body armour aint gonna stop you getting crushed. If you come to an abrupt halt from what ever mph, all this kit will only serve as a means of stopping most of your body fluids from running out on to the road. Because bits of you that were meant to be plumbed together inside you, will be in a messy pile in your foot or you ear! Do you ride fully leathered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I think everyone has to deal with worrying friends, partners and family. They wouldn't be much good if they didn't eh! Human Nature. To be honest, I worry about riding and think its a good thing to have a healthy respect for the dangers of the road. Commuting on a bike is going to up the likelyhood of accident, simply because of the traffic and times of day you will be riding. Having got over the initial novelty of passing my test I quickly learned that filtering through busy traffic is not what biking's about. Quiet, rolling B-roads, green hills and sunny days are where you'll really enjoy it - Filtering through traffic on a wet Monday morning is not my cup of tea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I worry about riding and think its a good thing to have a healthy respect for the dangers of the road. [/ QUOTE ] That is exactly the problem. What if we dont recognise the hazard? As I mentioned above, the riders that pass another vehicle with their knee rubbing the car door dont realise what they're doing. Nor do the riders that place themselves in "The Triangle of Death" for no reason. I had a collision last year in the car because I was not managing the driver behind me. I got sloppy through fatigue and took my eye off the ball. He ran into the back of me just as I told the wife he was in danger of doing 20mins earlier. I knew that he was a threat and had been controling him from in front. As I slowed for stopped traffic on the motorway, I'd timed it so I was "looking to go but prepared to stop" instead of the other way around (as I should've done). I could see the stationary traffic starting to move up ahead. But then it stopped again! I stopped in good time but had failed to manage the twatt behind. My error? Yes, I knew that this guy was a very real threat. I phucked up! It dont matter who was in the right or wrong, the collision was avoidable and I let a simple situation get away from me. Its riding above this level that will keep you safest. But make the mistake I did, on a bike I could've been dead. Not quite cause my positioning should've been different, but you can see what I mean if you aint nodded off yet! [ QUOTE ] Quiet, rolling B-roads, green hills and sunny days are where you'll really enjoy it - Filtering through traffic on a wet Monday morning is not my cup of tea... [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I hear ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Do you ride fully leathered? [/ QUOTE ] Of course, always. It's not so much the going under a car/truck and getting mangled up that's going to be protected against by wearing full gear, as the fact that skin wears out at something like an inch per second at 60mph on asphalt. And also that your back is very easily damaged and very difficult to repair. I'm getting a bit confused about your own viewpoint on protective gear SneakyMcC, bearing in mind we were discussing how to convince family that bikes aren't the most evil machines on earth. What do you wear yourself when riding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 [ QUOTE ] What do you wear yourself when riding? [/ QUOTE ] All leather... cap, waistcoat, bushy tash, you know the sorta things! I'll be posting a few pics in the other thread from the other night of me in leather (on my way to teh 'Blue Oyster Bar') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkins Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Whilst you're in the hands of other road users when on a Bike, I agree a large percentage of your safety and potential risk is down to how you ride yourself. And that's what I always try to preach to my worried loved ones. I've just got back from dropping of a hire bike (R6) this morning and had to go through the Rotherhithe tunnel, stuck behind a big white van at 15-20. I was quite happy to sit there at safe distance away so as to spot the aformentioned manhole covers / greasy marks / pot holes. To my horror though another bike was quite happy to overtake just before the bends crossing the foot wide unbroken white line meaning no-overtaking. You can make some serious progress on a bike in town but I think the risks increase accordingly. And a lot of other road users seem to hate and resent bikers for their traffic jumping abilites. I agree the real thrill of biking is twisty A and B roads away from the hussle and bussle of the city. I believe as long you're riding within yourself in these situations the risk of something bad happening is not that much worse than in a car (bar the obvious increase in self-damage if you do come off). Smudge maybe you can say you're getting a bike for quiet sunday pleasure rides and sneakily ease into commuting later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor46 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Smudge, I now ride 25miles each way to Norwich, so it's mostly rural A road (single carriageway) and a bit of urban filtering. However I used to be one of those previously mentioned black rats in the Limehouse Link Tunnel (though I don't recall dot-to-dotting the manhole covers, tend to avoid those like the plague). I was based in Bow and rode to work as well as at work. I was lucky, I did the police course within 2 years of passing my bike test, so not too many bad habits got in. Whilst generally the Rats are good, nobody is perfect, the important thing is to recognise errors and try to avoid repeating them. Once you pass your test get yourself on the Bikesafe course. You can't do it too soon. The police instructors will take your experience into account and won't expect too much of you. They will however take you up a safety level or two from your bike test. As for protective clothing, modern fabric motorcycle clothing is as good as leather, with the added bonus of being waterproof (the sort of thing that Ewan McGregregor and Charlie Boorman wore on the Long Way Round). No mucking about having to stop to put waterproofs on if a typical summer storm hits It's not cheap, but it is good. As for the bike, I'd go with the general opinion expressed. Jap would be more reliable and you don't want to get stuck halfway to work, or worse still halfway home. Hope I haven't bored you silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Whilst generally the Rats are good, nobody is perfect, the important thing is to recognise errors and try to avoid repeating them. [/ QUOTE ] That was the point I was trying to make. Thank you! Edit: Doctor46, do you know Malcom A and Paul R? I think they were at Bow before moving futher East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What do you wear yourself when riding? [/ QUOTE ] All leather... cap, waistcoat, bushy tash, you know the sorta things! I'll be posting a few pics in the other thread from the other night of me in leather (on my way to teh 'Blue Oyster Bar') [/ QUOTE ] Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcool Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Jut go out and order the bike without telling her, send her off to a health spa the day you pick the beast up and then go and pick her up from it with a spare set of leathers and extra helmet on your brand new bike. She'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Smudge, what was the outcome? Have you convince the gf that you wont become a...er...well a Smudge I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 I've seen this discussion a few times. The theory seems to be that cars are safe and bikes aren't. This simply isn't true. They are BOTH unsafe. Cycling a pushbike is also unsafe as is walking down the street. Yes bikes are more dangerous than cars. But tanks are safer than cars - should we all drive round in tanks? I would direct your GF to the following thought: Would she be happy with you cycling a pushbike to work (assuming that is possible). If sohow much difference is a motorbike. On the bike you will have decent gear to protect you and assuming that you don't ride like a nobber a similar chance to a car cutting you up etc etc. NB Would definitely recommend as others have) a really decent set of gear. Decent boots, gloves, jacket/trousers (or suit) with armour, back protector and a helmet. For me their are two types of helmets - those worth buying and those which aren't. I wouldn't touch the rubbish I see the kids round my way flying about it (no comment about the flip-flops on a scooter either) but each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] should we all drive round in tanks? [/ QUOTE ] Cashing your tank into a car would safe, but if we all had tanks... <font color="red"> Ps,</font> [ QUOTE ] NB Would definitely recommend as others have) a really decent set of gear. Decent boots, gloves, jacket/trousers (or suit) with armour, back protector and a helmet. [/ QUOTE ] <font color="red">Dont forget better training. I'd now consider riding nude than ride without better training if I could have only one or the other! </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 I thought that they'd just badged them Range Rovers nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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