Engine failure - type r

[4RingsDH]

Im usually using the Audi forum, however i am here because my cousin has a 2002 Type R. He purchased it 3 Months ago, he has travelled aproximately 2000 miles and the vehicle is now at the selling dealer with a 'reported' buggered engine. He took it straight to the dealer when he heard unusual rattling noises from the engine last week, the techs at the garage said they had to put 4.5 litres of oil in it as it was (obviously) very low. On the back of that they are not covering any repair under warranty as my cousin has neglected the engine. The last time the oil was checked was just prior to christmas. Is it feesible for this engine to consume 4.5 litres of oil in 2,000 miles without there being a fault? Are these engines known for oil consumption concerns? Any thoughts welcomed. Thanks

[sayerbloke]

I thought the general thought on Honda engines were they are extremely reliable... what's that anecdote that's been going around? Something about there never having been a failure of a VTEC engine when/during something or other.

But that one your mate has gone sounds like it's got problems! Maybe the previous owner wasn't looking after it.

[Stoogie]

they say check oil every time you fill up. but that amount would only be down due to extreme neglect, or major engine fault/leak. i think Honda say 1ltr per 2000 miles or so is exceptable.

[D1MAC]

[ QUOTE ]

I thought the general thought on Honda engines were they are extremely reliable... what's that anecdote that's been going around? Something about there never having been a failure of a VTEC engine when/during something or other.

But that one your mate has gone sounds like it's got problems! Maybe the previous owner wasn't looking after it.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little bit of a convenient smokescreen this one. There have been engine failures but the story is that there has never been one as a result of the VTEC system itself.

Honda engines as a rule are VERY reliable but they do let go if you abuse them and don't keep a weather eye on the oil - just like any engine really.

I have heard stories of Honda trying to wriggle out of engine related issues with the 'you didn't check the oil with sufficient regularity' line - the key is to check it regularly and stick to your guns when questioned.

[D1MAC]

[ QUOTE ]

Im usually using the Audi forum, however i am here because my cousin has a 2002 Type R. He purchased it 3 Months ago, he has travelled aproximately 2000 miles and the vehicle is now at the selling dealer with a 'reported' buggered engine. He took it straight to the dealer when he heard unusual rattling noises from the engine last week, the techs at the garage said they had to put 4.5 litres of oil in it as it was (obviously) very low. On the back of that they are not covering any repair under warranty as my cousin has neglected the engine. The last time the oil was checked was just prior to christmas. Is it feesible for this engine to consume 4.5 litres of oil in 2,000 miles without there being a fault? Are these engines known for oil consumption concerns? Any thoughts welcomed. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

In a word no. Mine never used more than about 1/2 litre between services and even some of that was the new filter soaking it up. However, apparently some do use more than that (apparently around how it's run in - IIRC hard but sensible is good) but no way are we talking about 4 1/2 litres in 2k miles - I would have thought more like 1/2 litre to a litre every 1000 miles worst case scenario.

Bad part is that I can't imagine the engine being all that cheap to replace - not silly money like supercar engines but no way is it going to be normal hatch (or possibly even normal hot hatch) money to replace, I guess.

I presume he has already confessed to not checking the oil every week or two. Even so I think he should stand his ground. It might be worth going to Citizens Advice and getting some peace of mind/advice re SOG act and then going back to the dealer -- no way is this a reasonable view from the stealer.

[4RingsDH]

Cheers chaps, D1MAC - he has been quoted £7k for new engine! Gonna get some more info about the facts tonight, but speaking to citizens advice is a good idea, i think the dealer is not paying any real attention to the situation. Will keep you all posted. I will refrain from naming the dealer unless asked.

[durtydurty]

Had a simlar problem recently, but in a Type - R that is alot newer, engine blew up and the bill is 7.5k.

When the car came in on the recovery truck the oil was drained out and literaly a cup full of oil came out of the car!!

Im sure if the car is used and really abused its possible to burn alot of oil.

We see a few people complaining about Type-R's using oil but then some people's cars dont use any between servicing.

The way they are driven perhaps? Dunno.

Just my 2pence worth!!

[Arch]

I take it we are talking Civic Type-R here? I had mine for two years, hardly used a drop the whole time. I kept an eye on it as there were stories doing the rounds of using a ltr every few thousand miles or so, but I never had an issue. The car was used as it should be used and it never skipped a beat. My Integra also has never had an oil issue. I think i've used about 1/2 litre in the last 2 years.

With regards to the age old warranty related claims, it's the VTEC system that hasn't failed, not the engine per se.

[D1MAC]

[ QUOTE ]

Had a simlar problem recently, but in a Type - R that is alot newer, engine blew up and the bill is 7.5k.

When the car came in on the recovery truck the oil was drained out and literaly a cup full of oil came out of the car!!

Im sure if the car is used and really abused its possible to burn alot of oil.

We see a few people complaining about Type-R's using oil but then some people's cars dont use any between servicing.

The way they are driven perhaps? Dunno.

Just my 2pence worth!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think it's how they are driven to some degree - I certainly didn't spare mine in the right circumstances. However, Iguess that ultimately Honda aren't THAT far removed from other manufacturers and the things I've always stuck to are:

1] Treat it gently until fully warmed.

2] Check the oil every couple of weeks tops and regular changes.

3] Stop-start motoring hammers everything.

4] Everyone builds a Friday car now and then, without exception.

Even the Astra I had quite a few years ago managed 196k and that took plenty of stick - but never when cold and never missed an oil change. Mind you, that was mostly M-Way stuff and it would never have cost anything like £7k+ to replace

I'm not surprised though sine I had two new steering racks under warranty (just) and they were a grand each, plus labour

[4RingsDH]

Update:

My cousin the owner of the type R (civic) has had the vehicle removed from the garage and is paying to have a new engine fitted elsewhere. Unfortunately i never got properly involved and was unable to help him getting a bit of help from Honda. One interesting thing though - it states in his handbook that the engine can consume up to 1 LITRE of oil per 600 MILES! with that in black and white i guess its a nice fall back for Honda. Thanks though for your posts, they strengthen my belief that an injustice has taken place.