jpullen Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I was once pulled by a police officer for "driving too closly to the car in front" - he asked me whether i thought it was a safe distance to follow the car in front. I then asked him why his car was even closer to mine than i was to the person in front - his reply: "I have an advanced driving licence" so i replied "your car will only brake to it's capabilities - so do you think you would have avoided me if I had slammed my breaks on?" - then he accused me of being lippy. you can't win sometimes. [/ QUOTE ] With the utmost repect to any officers of the law any copper who says he can drive how he wants to because he has an advanced driving course isn't worth arguing with. He is right, you are wrong, end of. I met plenty of people on power trips who are in positions of authority. Just smile and tug the forelock. [/ QUOTE ] I have no doubt of the thousands of motorists I have spoken to for all kinds of things I was a conversation piece over dinner. No one likes to be told off....especially about our driving! I'm sure the anecdote was adapted to suit the audinence. I'm sure on some occasions I was a bit harsh, but we are all human and when you have just finished picking up school books off the road and then you stop someone for 36mph passed the school gates it's easy to lay into them a bit. But I bet you would all rather recieve a good finger wagging than two flashes from an infernal camera !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] like all the training only the national limits are exceeded, so the 30's,40's etc are stuck to like glue. [/ QUOTE ] That's my personal morality on speed limits. I figure they're there for a specific assessed reason, where NSL is a blanket judgement that fails to take any particular stretch of road into account. Not that I do the exceeding NSL bit, honest. Ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] He holds a police qualification to drive which has no equivalent in civilan driving and is so well regarded in other countries that some come here for there training. [/ QUOTE ] JimP, Deviating topic a little: Regarding the foreign police driving students that come here, do they get to do public road training here? I mean exceeding speed limits and using 'blues and twos' etc? [/ QUOTE ] Good question, like all the training only the national limits are exceeded, so the 30's,40's etc are stuck to like glue. Which if you have just been overtaken in the national at high speed and then find yourself behind the same car sitting at 30 can seem a little strange. Training isnt given for 'blues and twos' that they can do in their own country. Its all about the ability to drive/ride at sustained high speeds and at the right speed, in the right gear, on the right part of the road at the right time. Speed comes a lot further down the list than Safety. There is many a Japanese or Saudi Arabian police man who now has the taste for a sweet tea and a sausage sandwich having visited one too many road side cafes! [/ QUOTE ] I must say, I'm suprised the foreign 'pupils' are allowed to exceed the speed limits at all, here. The last time I watched a news report following a high-speed accident involving a police driver under training, the police spokesman wheeled out to face the media said that it was absolutely necessary for them to learn at high speed, on public roads. That's totally fair, and I'm sure not many people would argue with that, but I'd like to see ANYONE try to justify the same thing for a foreign police driver being trained on our roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilB Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I agree with what this guy was doing to some extent, beacuse if you don't use it you loose it so to speak. But it's the speeds he was doing that angered me. As the motorway he done it on has a poor road surface, only 2 lanes wide and is unlit from Wolverhampton onwards. And to all those who are saying one rule for them and another for us, should quite frankly find something more worth while to whinge about, rather then having a go at a bunch of people who have a near enough impossible job in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Yes jim, a good finger wagging, 3 points & a £60 fine. Thats what i received for doing 58 in a 40 by cops 'hiding' up a dark, quiet country road. I thought it was a bit harsh given the circumstances, they could have just gave me a lecture and a finger wagging instead of going the whole hog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpullen Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Yes jim, a good finger wagging, 3 points & a £60 fine. Thats what i received for doing 58 in a 40 by cops 'hiding' up a dark, quiet country road. I thought it was a bit harsh given the circumstances, they could have just gave me a lecture and a finger wagging instead of going the whole hog [/ QUOTE ] Think I would have to agree with that...one or the other but not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadstoys Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Several different things you need to consider here, firstly he was a police officer using the car for a police purpose therefore he was exempt from speed limits. That also applies in just the same way for an ambulance or a vehicle being used for ambulannce purpose. The court(s) were all satisfied he was using it for a police purpose. He holds a police qualification to drive which has no equivalent in civilan driving and is so well regarded in other countries that some come here for there training. As to wheather his speed at that time was 'dangerous', well that is subjective and a normal test would be if the normal person in the street would feel it fell well below what is expected of a normal driver. That would take into account all road conditions and the vehicle but not the quality of the driver. In fact the same test applies to a provisional licence holder. Now you might argue in this case that because of his driving skills in this case it was not dangerous. Having said all that I have held a Class 1 Police driving qualification since 1986 and I would not feel comfortable at those speeds. There are to many unknown factors even on a motorway that you percieve as clear. At that speed you will struggle to miss debris even if you see it and when you come across the car on the hard shoulder with driver recovering the contents of his briefcase that he left on the roof at the last service station which is now in lane 3 you will both get a big shock. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed with the above. Also Police Grade One since 1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkyle Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I have a drift licence does that mean that I can drift round every roundabout. no seriously I agree with mr plod but 153mph is excessive on any public road and I don’t care about some stupid police licence!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerpalmer Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think NeilB has a point. If this police driver is expected to catch crims driving nicked high performance cars, he has to be able to drive safely at thoses speeds. I hope it never happens to any of us, but if your high performance motor is pinched, and the cops are in hot pursuit" (Rosco p Coltrain style), I hope they catch the b@stards, because cops they are better drivers than the crims. It would be tragic if the cops gave up because speeds were over the limit. Since when have crims stuck to the speed limit. Give the guy a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] No matter how good your driving skills are, 159mph in a Vectra is definitely dangerous - bad enough at 80mph [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely right Anyone who claims to be a class one driver should not be pushing what is, lets face it, an ordinary hatchback that just happens to be able to do nigh on 160mph to it's limits and beyond. He could well have been pretty close to his limits in taking such a car to such extremes. It's not a Porsche/Ferrari/Merc/BMW/Audi/whatever that has been designed to do 200+ and is thus well within it's limits, it's a Vectra FFS and would have been at it's extremes and very much doubt all that safe. What would he have done had he found himself in a position where he needed to accelerate (slight I know but anything could happen) - browned his keks no doubt! I'm still not 100% convinced by all this class one stuff in general but in this specific case I think our friend should have been hung out to dry. His actions were little different to a rep wringing the neck out of Passat TDi or the like, he just happens to have 'friends' and a belief that he's the best driver on god's green earth - sorry but no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpullen Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No matter how good your driving skills are, 159mph in a Vectra is definitely dangerous - bad enough at 80mph [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely right Anyone who claims to be a class one driver should not be pushing what is, lets face it, an ordinary hatchback that just happens to be able to do nigh on 160mph to it's limits and beyond. He could well have been pretty close to his limits in taking such a car to such extremes. It's not a Porsche/Ferrari/Merc/BMW/Audi/whatever that has been designed to do 200+ and is thus well within it's limits, it's a Vectra FFS and would have been at it's extremes and very much doubt all that safe. What would he have done had he found himself in a position where he needed to accelerate (slight I know but anything could happen) - browned his keks no doubt! I'm still not 100% convinced by all this class one stuff in general but in this specific case I think our friend should have been hung out to dry. His actions were little different to a rep wringing the neck out of Passat TDi or the like, he just happens to have 'friends' and a belief that he's the best driver on god's green earth - sorry but no! [/ QUOTE ] Now I can't claim because I'm a Class 1 that it automatically makes me better qualified than anyone else because plainly it doesn't. I do honestly believe it took what natural ability I already had and took me to a skill level that as a 'normal' driver (excuse the very poor terminology) I would never have achieved. I am very comfortable with defending that view, as would all my colleagues on here I am sure. Where you do hit the nail on the head though is as fine a Vauxhall Vectra is. The design brief did not include these speeds. Whilst it may be nice to boast our S4/6/8 R32 M3/5 can do 150 plus very few have any inclination to actually do it. Or if they do it will be for a very short time and become a good story on here. Now don't get me wrong I have a B7 Avant Sline because it looks fast standing still and that an impression I like to give. If I had the money I would have an S4 or M3 tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 That's true Jim, But i've driven and owned some pretty impressive cars. I've done track days, driven the ring, i'm happy and in full control at speeds in excess of 100mph. But, if i was caught on the highways at those speeds i would be looking at a jail sentence.. and justifiably so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] That's true Jim, But i've driven and owned some pretty impressive cars. I've done track days, driven the ring, i'm happy and in full control at speeds in excess of 100mph. But, if i was caught on the highways at those speeds i would be looking at a jail sentence.. and justifiably so. [/ QUOTE ] Yes that was kind of the direction I was taking with my view on class one. I'm not for one minute suggesting that class one drivers are no kop. I accept that you guys have a fair bit of good training and a lot of practice that some of us don't get. Some may also have a lot of god given talent and the others will generally be of a very good standard. However, I do have a problem with the presumption that anyone who holds class one is automatically oh so much better than other people on the road. I do believe that there are a decent number of people out there who, leaving aside some of the finer/more 'unusual' elements, are equally as talented as all round drivers. Some have exceptional skill, some have brilliant observation and others are just good all rounders. Unlike Dave, I haven't done track days (playing around with a go kart is as far as I've ever got), the ring or had pretty impressive cars (limited to a couple of decent hot hatches and some right old sh*te) but I did do the IAM test when quite young and I do have decent experience in many conditions since then. I also think I have pretty good observation. I don't necessarily think I'm at class one level at the moment but I don't believe I'm much more of a danger (and think with some work I could get to that kind of level). However, as has been pointed out, I think using more than 95% of any cars capability (maybe even 90%) is complete lunacy from anyone - no matter who you are, you just don't have anywhere to go if something goes wrong (and I thought that was a fairly central tenet of class one driving). I also know that getting anywhere close to those absolute speeds (both the 159 and the 91) would see me bending for the soap in the shower , even though I might not necessarily be any more safe/dangerous due to different abilities in the relevant fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I have had training also (with the departed Barry Sheen)and have driven on a motorway at 155MPH on a sussy 1100r, that was a long time ago when you were allowed to kill yourself if you wished. BUT at that speed the road become windy even a motoway, one slip and your gone training or not, and I might add the Vectra is the last car I would want to be in above 70 never mind 150 they are crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niazS8 Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 The Officer was wrong in what he did. He could have tried this speed in training with other colleagues. I think he 'thought' quiet stretch lets see what she's got. On the other hand the Officer has been through rigorous training and will know how to handle the cars at most speeds in very difficult situations. However what he has achieved is more hatred of Officers, especially Traffic Officers by the general public. But most of the hard working officers are going to be p****d with the officer in question too.So I hope he is not feeling happy about this. However the law is there to protect us. If you are speeding over 100mph+ and god forbids something happens, what is your likelyhood of you surviving? Forget about the odd broken bone! Yes cars are more advanced and safer but it is still a lump of metal. So 70mph is low nowadays, but I sure a lot more people survive today because of this. I think if you want to look at problems first sort the lorry drivers, people who stick in the middle lanes, foreign drivers who stay in the right lane all the time, drivers who don't stick to your bumper, drivers with no mot/insurance etc.. These are real issues that need addressing. I will now get off my soap box.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botang Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] The amount of road you are covering is approaching 2.7 miles per minute. The road may have been quiet, but at those speeds anything out of the ordinary would have meant death.. bird on road, debris on road, car pulling out, blown tyre..etc [/ QUOTE ] Its slightly pedantic I know, but can I say that this could have resulted in death rather than would have. Having witnessed someone have a blow out on an autobhan at ~150mph the driver slowed down pulled over and changed the tyre no drama. Interesting that you used the pic of the smashed up RS6 as well, as far as I know the driver was unharmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkPrincess Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 We find 70 MPH is so slow on the motorway.. You tend to find that 80-90 mph is norm now... Even with the bubba on board we do 80+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think that each individual case has to be judged on its circumstances - Primarily: purpose (on emergency duty?), environment (road conditions), vehicle performance (if safe at speed), and driver skill. Unfortunately I think that in this particular case there's a strong element of the public resenting how they are preyed upon by hidden cameras and seeing this as pay-back time and wanting his blood just because he's a policeman. That's not fair justice. Welcome to Tyresmoke, JimP . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] We find MPH is so slow on the motorway.. You tend to find that 80-90 mph is norm now... Even with the bubba on board we do 80+ [/ QUOTE ] ....I think it depends entirely on what car you are driving at 80+ and also what the road conditions are such as wet/dry and traffic density etc etc. I try to drive to the best of my ability whoever is or isn't on board. I'm afraid that those 'Baby On Board' stickers annoy me! It's not speed that kills but inappropriate speed. Most of us TSNers are always saying that! Welcome back, PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkPrincess Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 We haven't got a baby on board sticker, instead we usually have one saying "Who's the Daddy? I am so BACK OFF" LOL. you do know the real reason for those stickers don't you? They are not for the fact of speed etc etc Its to alert emergency services that a child could be present in the vehicle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 ....Wow! Thanks PP - I didn't know that about the stickers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkPrincess Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Tis Ok. I found that out when I was talking to a Fireman and a Paramedic :S I didnt realise either but now we make sure we have some kind of way to indicate a baby on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I was discussed on here when our kiddy was born (nearly two years ago). I'm sure someone said that the emergency services don't pay notice to them as they have to check all vehicles properly and since people don't remove them when the kids aren't in the car, they can potentially put the emergency services in danger as they may be looking for little 'uns that don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Here's the previous thread....on the days my wife's water broke...and I was surfing the web. HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Interesting that you used the pic of the smashed up RS6 as well, as far as I know the driver was unharmed. [/ QUOTE ] That is true, apparently, but do you not think he is probably one of luckiest people alive? As for the fate of any passangers that could have been in the car.. mashed.. i'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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