chrisan Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Off topic. I've just noticed you've got a Focus ST2. Great car. Prior to this I had a ST200 4 door Ltd Edition. Fantastic car. I've had 3 XR4x4's, a 2.8i Special Capri and a beautful 3.0 Ghia Capri and many others. The last few years marred my opinion of Ford. Heavy depreciation and unbelievable rudness from service desks and customer services. Factors of assessing a badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I've had 3 XR4x4's, a 2.8i Special Capri [/ QUOTE ] There's two very special 80s icons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What kind of dumb ass reasoning is that??? [/ QUOTE ] Take it easy - each to their own - live and let live, etc. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, you're right I guess I just can't stand badge snobbery and all the baggage that usually goes with it. It looked to me like a stereotypical point of lets bash all stuff like Ford/GM and laud all premium Germans. [ QUOTE ] I've owned Fords for 20 years prior to my current car so I'm fairly well qualified to place Ford in a list. In "my opinion" they would be towards the bottom of "my" current list. That is what the OP asked - yes? I simply included Jaguar (a wholly owned company?) since I believe their X-Type has all the traits of a Mondeo, including it's depriciation. To me, this is part of what defines a badge. [/ QUOTE ] I'm coming at it from a different angle - A strongly neutral background (couldn't say I'm a fanboy of anything, closest would be a liking for the more extreme Hondas) and I've never had a Ford before (and it's entirely possible that I might never have another). I haven't yet experienced the service side (but need to soonish) but in terms of the buying experience I had no problems, certainly way less than I had when trying to look at GTI/R32s, A3/A4s and the 130/330. In terms of pure badge power, I wouldn't for a second suggest that Ford is all that high up the list, nor would I suggest that Jaguar was at the top. However, I think the view that Jag belongs at the scroty end of the list & lower down than Skoda/Seat/Fiat etc is simply ridiculous (as it is for Ford TBH). While there have indeed been some not particularly wonderful Jags under Ford ownership (X-Type being the prime example), I would suggest that the general cachet of the Cat has not been hammered to the extent that it is down with the Dacias and Tatas of this world. I also still thing your generally wrong about Ford ownership. The point about Aston (even though it too has failings) still stands and I would suggest that at least one of Jaguar or Aston would have gone under without Ford's money. In general terms, I would suggest that Ford & Vx generally rank as ordinary in badge terms, caused by factors such as the high level of sales & discounts in the company car market, fairly average products/service (generally but both are getting better pretty quickly) and, of course, the attitudes towards badge/image etc of class-ridden Britain. However, they ain't the worst out there and I would suggest that the true sportier models (e.g. RS) still have a degree of pull in this country generally. Of course I still think the general attitude towards the 'badge' is faintly ridiculous. Something like the Honda NSX is a great example of just how daft this situation can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Off topic. I've just noticed you've got a Focus ST2. Great car. Prior to this I had a ST200 4 door Ltd Edition. Fantastic car. I've had 3 XR4x4's, a 2.8i Special Capri and a beautful 3.0 Ghia Capri and many others. The last few years marred my opinion of Ford. Heavy depreciation and unbelievable rudness from service desks and customer services. Factors of assessing a badge? [/ QUOTE ] Apart from a couple of little 'inconvenience' niggles and a general feeling that it's a bit too soft & non revvy for my liking, the Focus has been pretty good so far and even though I have a yearning for a 350Z or a 335i, I will be keeping it for at least 12 months yet. As an all-rounder it ticks the box, especially at the price I paid. I would agree that experiences like than can sometimes influence attitudes towards the brand. However, sometimes that doesn't seem to affect things at all. Look at all the people on here who whine like mad about VAG customer service but still won't have anything held against the brand/Co. The cars may be good but there must come a point where this has to influence the standing of the badge. Funnily enough, apart from the depreciation element I actually had the same issues with Honda and the generally held view for them would be somewhat different. It was enough for me not to wait for the new CTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_d Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 D1MAC> I think Ford have done wonders for their brand imagine. The build quality is up and I've always found the dealers helpful. As for always luving the VAG brands. Well, I've found Audi faultless so far, but I will never buy another VW after the 'service' I received from them. However, I still seem to have put their band relatively high in my rankings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyds Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Would have put Jaguar on top,but their recent models are pretty poor-rebadged Rovers. [/ QUOTE ] Eh? How'd you figure that one? [/ QUOTE ] look at at a S type jaguar-compare it to the Rover saloons-look very similar. Not really sure either mate [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] There have been parallels drawn between the S-type and the 75 in the past (as both are retro-looking saloons), but they're in no way related The X-type shares a lot of mechanical bits with the mondeo, and IMO, was Jaguar's biggest mistake. Jaguar is not a lower level BMW/audi competitor and should have stuck to the market slots it's enjoyed so well in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_d Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Looking at the Jag models due to come out I think it will be fine The X-Type will not be 'directly' replaced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 [ QUOTE ] D1MAC> I think Ford have done wonders for their brand imagine. The build quality is up and I've always found the dealers helpful. [/ QUOTE ] Which is kinda where I was coming from. I know Ford has a lot of current and previous baggage, but in Europe at least the product is in the main getting an awful lot better and that has to have a degree of positive influence on the image. Gold plated - obviously no. Decent - Yes [ QUOTE ] As for always luving the VAG brands. Well, I've found Audi faultless so far, but I will never buy another VW after the 'service' I received from them. However, I still seem to have put their band relatively high in my rankings... [/ QUOTE ] Thing is, a lot of the premium brands seem to be wobbling in terms of reliability/service etc to some degree (look at Merc's recent problems) yet their image on the face of it doesn't seem to take any hammer at all - I know what you mean re VW after my Honda experience. Thing is, given the right Honda I'd still have another and would put it fairly high up the list, if only for drivetrain quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] As for always luving the VAG brands. Well, I've found Audi faultless so far, but I will never buy another VW after the 'service' I received from them. However, I still seem to have put their band relatively high in my rankings... [/ QUOTE ] Me too, but then I thought we were being asked to put the badges in order of perceived prestige rather than the quality of the cars or the quality of dealer service. If we're taking service into account, then I'd put VW 38th and Audi 196th. Out of 11. Like Stevie_d, I'd never have either again, after encountering their dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Me too, but then I thought we were being asked to put the badges in order of perceived prestige rather than the quality of the cars or the quality of dealer service. [/ QUOTE ] Yep - Each to their own percieved image of the brand. Jag would be higher up IF they had not made the X-Type poo. Fiat are really moving up. Their new cars abd the great JTD engines are cracking. Vx - for me, great cars that do as they are designed for. I think the Signum is superb. (having owned 7 with Cavalier Mk II, Senators and Omegas) Ford - nothing doing for me, bland things, with only the 5 Cyl engine the good point - I won't buy one. Very near the bottom (if not bottom) Volvo - hmmm, C30?? WTF?? Subaru - Ace, yes, the Impreza has a percieved image issue, but the Legacy is great understatement. BMW - Percieved as a top marque, irrelevant of ugliness Audi - Just below BMW, and will take a while to change. Seat - getting their Skoda - all the surveys say owners are happy, and even the dissenters grudgingly agree, the image is improving. Just my humble opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair_A3 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 BMW Audi Porsche Aston Martin Ferrari all the top marques etc There is no way that Ford/Vauxhall and all that lot have badge power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 BMW Audi VW Volvo Skoda Ford Jaguar Seat Subaru Vauxhall Fiat Porsche, Aston Martin, Ferrari aren't even on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair_A3 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 so you are saying that for example Skoda has more badge power than say Porsche do me a favour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] so you are saying that for example Skoda has more badge power than say Porsche do me a favour! [/ QUOTE ] Nope, just that in Collease's original post, their were no Porsche's in the staff car park - so weren't on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Jaguar BMW Subaru Audi Seat Ford VW Volvo Skoda Fiat Vauxhall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 You sure about Seat above VW? I can't see many on here agreeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 forget Seat - look where Jaguar are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] You sure about Seat above VW? I can't see many on here agreeing [/ QUOTE ] Yep, I find the likes of the Leon (particularly the old shape in Cupra R spec) or Ibiza more appealing than the VWs. [ QUOTE ] forget Seat - look where Jaguar are [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretending the X and S-type don't exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 So which fords are you pretending dont exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] So which fords are you pretending dont exist [/ QUOTE ] I've had good experiences with the brand and to me they stand for decent priced cars which are reasonably fun to drive. Even the very entry level Ka 1.3 can be an entertaining drive, probably the best in its class, and once again I'm on the lookout for Pumas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 the end of the MX5?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 [ QUOTE ] the end of the MX5?? [/ QUOTE ] Had some engine issues a couple months back. Long story short its running fine now but has a bit of a rattle to it as it heats up and ideally needs new pistons, which would mean a re-bore, so could well be cheaper to fit a refurbed engine. Temptation is to try and shift it on to dealer in part-ex for something else. Its had a fair bit of work done to it though and I've been told to try giving it a bit of time to see if the issue goes away as the deposits that were burnt off due to overheating build back up, at least thats what I've been told, I don't hold out much hope. Work has been carried out by a local (retired) mechanic and while he's very good part of me thinks its more a case of he's trying to fob me off as he doesn't have the time to sort it out properly right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 hope it gets sorted- I know how much you love that car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_C Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Audi BMW VW Seat Skoda Jaguar Volvo Subaru Ford Vauxhall Fiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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