C63 Black series AMG on M23 today.

[Mac 1,012]

But ultimately it still comes down to there being much more 'exotic' choices for your £110k.

Ok, fair play, name some?

[Twinspark 299]

As I've already posted, the outgoing 911 Turbo and GT3 RS.

Maserati Granturismo Coupe

Jaguar XK-R

Audi R8

I do admit that I'd completely lost track of how far up the market Ferrari and Lamborghini have now moved - I was kind of expecting £120k starting points for them - but £116k does get you an Aston.

[Woppum 512]

That's part of the problem - and the same applies to the M3 GTS. They look far too closely related to bog standard cars for my liking - and if you look on eBay, there's already an aftermarket in black series style kits for the current shape C-class.

Looking at the interior shots, again, it just doesn't look special enough for the cash - it looks, to me, like any other decent spec. C-class.

Doesn't help that I really don't like the C-Class anyway - they just didn't seem to deliver the quality expected of something costing £6k more than the Passat I was driving at the time.

But ultimately it still comes down to there being much more 'exotic' choices for your £110k.

The m3 gts is a lot of money for what it is. I grant you that. You can turn a normal m3 in to something similar for less, if you can be bothered. However most did not pass hands at over 100k, more like 80-85k. Most are not used as intended either, rather part of a collection of metal that hardly gets used in the hope its an appreciating asset, making the initial ticket price only relevant at the time you sell it. Some think it will appreciate, time will tell.

the black is a different proposition. It has 2-4 seats, an auto gearbox, sounds like the devil and goes like it but is by all accounts a road car not a track car. It is supposed to be a riot to drive on the roads! Don't knock it till you have tried it. Doubt it's a collectors car though, but due to low numbers it will hold its value far better than other cars in the 100k territory.

where would your cash go then?

[Twinspark 299]

where would your cash go then?

Maserati.

[Woppum 512]

As I've already posted, the outgoing 911 Turbo and GT3 RS.

Maserati Granturismo Coupe

Jaguar XK-R

Audi R8

I do admit that I'd completely lost track of how far up the market Ferrari and Lamborghini have now moved - I was kind of expecting £120k starting points for them - but £116k does get you an Aston.

Gt3 rs is another animal entirely. It is at more hardcore. The black is a daily car, so I suppose a turbo is an alternative. The black would be far more fun t drive through. Turbo is a bit sterile. You also have to remember these cars with options are more like 130k plus. This black series is closer in price to a basic 991 which with options can be 100k. IMHO the black is far more special than that.

a 458 is around 200k, the gallardo is at the end of its life, new one will be out next year and expect 200k ticket.

[Woppum 512]

Maserati.

Nice, lovely cars but I wouldn't say it's a competitor to the black. The black is in a little cult world of its own, covered in marmite it seems

[m4ttm4son 198]

I'd buy (part of) a flat

Even if I won the lottery this wouldn't be in my stable.

[Woppum 512]

I'd buy (part of) a flat +++Even if I won the lottery this wouldn't be in my stable.

What would?

[eldavo69 1,813]

Shirley the whole point of these aspirational über-saloons is to shift the boring standard cars too?

If you make them look too different it wouldn't work. Hence all the big manufacturers now have a "family" design so Gary 2.4 kids says "I like the new A8 but I'll buy the A4 as it's in budget and shares the look"

[fizzbitt 1]

sounds like the devil and goes like it but is by all accounts a road car not a track car.

I can vouch for the sound as it was like thunder. Ive seen a few C63 AMG's and they sound amazing but this sounds even better. I actually heard it coming off the slip road before i saw it and i was in the 3rd lane with windows up and music on loud.

I have to admit that it really does have a special feel about it and as much as you think it looks like a C-Class coupe, the first impression i had was WOW...that thing is a special beast!

[patently 4,674]

Shirley the whole point of these aspirational über-saloons is to shift the boring standard cars too?

Yeah, but the "standard" AMG does that, Shirley. So there's non need for the Black - which is, kind of, why I like the fact that they've made it.

[eldavo69 1,813]

But the standard AMG is a reasonable ownership proposition, it's not silly priced for what it is, returns reasonable economy all things considered and is a very road-biased car.

AMG models used to be few and far between but are now a common sight so the "Black" classification gives another tier of Halo models.

Maybe they need to produce something absolutely mental again like that £1m homologation car from the 90s

[bazza_g 369]

first impression i had was WOW...that thing is a special beast!

...and there we have it, its got the wow factor!

[bazza_g 369]

But the standard AMG is a reasonable ownership proposition, it's not silly priced for what it is, returns reasonable economy all things considered and is a very road-biased car.

My tuned GTR was better on fuel than this 'standard' C63 AMG

[Tipex 1,738]

What are the service intervals on a C63 though? Much further apart than a GTR i'd bet!

[Mac 1,012]

What are the service intervals on a C63 though? Much further apart than a GTR i'd bet!

Similar to the M3, about 15k miles variable I believe. Compared to the GTR's 6k intervals. It's that that really put me off the GTR - I'd be getting it serviced every other month which is just crazy really.

[Tipex 1,738]

That's actually even better than I thought, but things like that have a huge influence on cars i'd buy.

I'd never buy a GTR no matter how much money I had, because, like you, i'd be having it serviced every few months and can do without that hassle, for much the same reason i'd always pick a Scooby over an Evo when talking price ranges i'm more likely spend my money on.

GTR's will plummet in value soon, uninsurable (well, almost), expensive to service etc, it won't be long before every council estate has a couple of neglected ones.

[Mac 1,012]

Uninsurable? About a third cheaper for me on a 2010 GTR than it is on the M3 - go figure.

[Tipex 1,738]

That's interesting, I got chatting to the insurance assessor that came to value my Subaru and we were discussing GTR's, he reckoned the parts were so expensive* (even disregarding the pedestrian protection thingy that famously costs fortunes), that it would become almost impossible to insure them (for sensible money) as none of the insurers would take on the risk, and as the value of the cars go down, the price of replacement parts become even more disproportionate, it's going to be a difficult car to insure.

Particularly as because of these issues, the value drops, and they fall into the hands of people who are probably less likely to know how to drive and maintain them properly, which results in them being involved in more accidents, and therefore harder to insure again.

*one example was (I think) the rear bumper and diffuser being 6k!

[Mac 1,012]

It really depends on the insurer, what market they want to be in, and how they calculate the costs. Most insurance premium costs don't tend to be driven by the damage you do to your own car, it's usually the auxiliary costs that drive up the premium. Saying that, it's years since I worked in insurance so it could be different now.

If you look at my BMW for example, you'd have expected the premiums to have rocketed because of 'OMG millions are being stolen) - whereas in reality the loss to theft real cost is only a small part of the picture.

Insurance companies are a real law unto themselves in some respects. When they're cash-poor for example they may drop prices in a premium sector to bring in cash and revenue if they know that future claims may damage the real 'cost' of that insurance policy if that makes sense.

[richy_uk 2]

My tuned GTR was better on fuel than this 'standard' C63 AMG

Bazza, you're killing me ! You make a comment like that after I order mine. Roll on end of March !

[bazza_g 369]

Similar to the M3, about 15k miles variable I believe. Compared to the GTR's 6k intervals. It's that that really put me off the GTR - I'd be getting it serviced every other month which is just crazy really.

2009/2010 gtr service interval was 6 months or 6k miles, whichever came first - MY2011 onwards changed to 12 months or 9k miles