DanG Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hello! I need to choose a new laptop for home use. I have a Dell D610 which I use for work and its fine, but I fancy something more 'up to date' for family stuff. (no kids - yet) It will primarily be used for personal email, photos, internet and of course music. It will also need to travel a fair bit I suspect too. Big question is to stay with Windows or move to a Macbook Pro? Options so far look like Dell XPS or the Mac... although everyone I have spoken to about Vista recons it uses too much memory, so presumably i'd have to increase this to 3 or 4 gb RAM? Any advice very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It will primarily be used for personal email, photos, internet and of course music. It will also need to travel a fair bit I suspect too. [/ QUOTE ] For those uses it would have to be a Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 You will get an answer depending on what people like to use. Personally I'd stay with a pc as you will only get annoyed having to think which way it works on each different operating system. As for memory for Vista 2gb is more than enough for what you need to use it for. Or just install XP on a 1gb machine if you want. Do you want style or something small and light if you using it to travel with. I'd not really class a Dell as very resilient to a few knocks myself but it depends on the style issue and your budget. I've just got a new Lenovo T61 at work and its a cracking bit of kit. Excellent screen, stunning battery life, its quick and the keyboard is as good as it gets on ANY laptop make. Use it and abuse it and in 3 years time it will still look like new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullett Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 An XPS is a top spec dell gaming machine. If you want to game then the XPS range is as good as gaming laptops get. Bit over the top for the uses you have listed though. You should be able to pick up a vista laptop for £400-500 that will do the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Lots of Dell XPS machines are more mid-range than high-end. The M1310 for example, while powerful for its size, isn't really capable of running games at high detail levels. Vista gets criticised for using too much memory, but a lot of what it is doing is caching commonly used application files, this is a good thing as free memory is essentially wasted memory and the data gets dumped if the memory is needed by running applications. That said I wouldn't recommend less than 2GiB, 4GiB will also bring useful improvements. All the MacBooks are great bits of kit, but as CarMad suggested my first choice will always be ThinkPads. I have an oldish T40 and it still suits my needs perfectly (with XP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I can get an XPS for around £700, and a Mac book pro for £1000..... Mind you my Dell has lasted a very long time, and has seen the inside of a baggage hold on more than one occasion, although I tend to take it hand luggage as often as possible. Its battered, dented and scratched but has never let me down. Although the battery lasts for about 20 mins tops these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 OS X is an awesome operating system, and 's all over Vista. I feel confident in making this statement as I have to use both every day at work - even to the point of deep diving (like registry hacking and systems/interface tweaking) - but I have had a lot of practice/experience with both families of operating systems and have built my bias up over the last 20 years... However, as mentioned above - the Apple is the ideal choice for the uses you want to put it to. The choice you face is whether you can cope with 2 different OS's in your life, or want to stay in your comfort zone with Windows. On a hardware decision, you'll get folks with dodgy hardware from every vendor, but the Apple hardware is absolutely first class and will last a relatively long time. Most folks upgrade Windows laptops every 12-36 months, most OS X users do it at 36-60 months. My oldest PowerBook is now 4.5 years old and runs 10.4.11 like a new one (just obviously not as fast). On a side note - you could always get a DELL or HP and install Ubuntu on it! On a side side note - most folks who I know who have come to the dark side and "switched" to OS X have never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] OS X is an awesome operating system, and 's all over Vista. [/ QUOTE ] Ermm - I thought you were an IT expert? Saying stupid comments like the above messes that up. I'm not really biased Rach, but both O/S feature lots of spaghetti code thats been polished over the years. Writing everything from scratch isnt technically possibly in just a couple of years, whilst maintaining compatibility and stability - too much code. Vista is bigger and bulkier because all the new hardware/technologies are aimed at the much bigger PC market, so MS and the manufacturers have to integrate the new stuff asap. Doesnt mean its worse. Most hackers target PCs because thats a bigger market too. OSX is easier to use in some peoples eyes, but when you think most companies use PCs, there's no point in people learning macs if they want to be useful on computers in the workplace too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It will primarily be used for personal email, photos, internet and of course music. It will also need to travel a fair bit I suspect too. [/ QUOTE ] Dell laptops are overpriced. Plenty of cheap/decent/fast ones in PC world. For £400 you'll get a good specced Athlon X64x2 with 2gig RAM, widescreen, etc, etc. Even the big brand ones like Compaq are cheap now - and great quality!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Ermm - I thought you were an IT expert? [/ QUOTE ] Who ever said that was deluded, drugged, or leaking secrets. [ QUOTE ] Saying stupid comments like the above messes that up. I'm not really biased Rach, but both O/S feature lots of spaghetti code thats been polished over the years. Writing everything from scratch isnt technically possibly in just a couple of years, whilst maintaining compatibility and stability - too much code. [/ QUOTE ] Umm - I mentioned my bias right up front, not sure what this detour is about... Windows wins the "historically bloated for backwards compatibility" award by a country mile. [ QUOTE ] Vista is bigger and bulkier because all the new hardware/technologies are aimed at the much bigger PC market, so MS and the manufacturers have to integrate the new stuff asap. Doesnt mean its worse. Most hackers target PCs because thats a bigger market too. [/ QUOTE ] Vista is big and resource hungry and has lots of new features like a new network stack - rewritten supposedly from scratch and is less stable and more persnickety than the one found in XP. Vista automagically installs software without your knowledge or consent if it can get an Internet connection and even if you explicitly told it not to. Vista has a sidebar (can you say Dashboard?), Vista has tilt bits - and a raft of misery lurking for those who tamper with anything that might trigger the Hollywood approved DRM enforcement strung throughout the OS. But this is all irrelevant w.r.t. the original question... [ QUOTE ] OSX is easier to use in some peoples eyes, but when you think most companies use PCs, there's no point in people learning macs if they want to be useful on computers in the workplace too. [/ QUOTE ] Nice point - That's one of those "there's no point in learning how to drive a manual because all our cars are automatics" sort of arguments. Pity the use for which the laptop choice was originally posited had nothing to do with business/corporate computing. Strange too that I'm seeing lots more Linux and Mac client systems in corporate environments than ever before... Let's move these "religious war" verbal burnt stick pokes somewhere else and help the man pick a laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Let's move these "religious war" verbal burnt stick pokes somewhere else and help the man pick a laptop. [/ QUOTE ] Ermm... I did say i wasnt really biased and then told him where to pick up a good cheap laptop that will do exactly what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Mac everytime, for what you want to do it wins by a long, long way. I use both, but the Mac is my main machine now, the PC laptop never leaves the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Also just deleted Vista off my Macbook as I have only booted it once since it came out, and that was to use vag-com on someone elses car!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It will primarily be used for personal email, photos, internet and of course music. It will also need to travel a fair bit I suspect too. Big question is to stay with Windows or move to a Macbook Pro? [/ QUOTE ] One easy (but more time consuming) way to decide is: 1) burn a CD (or DVD) with a pile of photos and music. 2) take the disc and your digital camera to where you can buy an Apple. Ask to see an "out of the box" laptop that has only Apple provided software on it (so no photoshop and stuff) - and specify the hardware (eg. Macbook vs MacBookPro vs MBP with high-def display). Make a note of the hardware specs (CPU, RAM, disk size and speed, ports, DVD burner...) 3) get them to show you how to import into iTunes (music) and iPhoto (pix). 4) get them to show you how easy it is to plug your camera (or its memory card) in and manage the images. 5) as you mentioned travel - definitely get them to show you how easy the wireless LAN is to use, or even if you need to connect to a secured corporate network - how simple it is. 6) make a subjective decision on how the exercise and the test machine worked for you. 7) pick the retailer of choice for a Windows laptop 8) Ask to see an "out of the box" laptop that has only Vista and Microsoft packaged software on it (so no photoshop, no office,etc.). Make sure the laptop is as close to the hardware specs of the Apple that you noted earlier. 9) repeat steps 3 to 6 on the Vista system if you can using the inbuilt music (Media Player/Centre) and image software 10) decide which was easier, faster and least painful to use. 11) Pay your $$$ to the winner and go home and play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I currently back up a lot of photos and music to external drives, all of which are USB. Will these simply plug into a Mac and work correctly? Finally, is there a way of running excel on a Mac? installing XP perhaps?? Its probably the only program I would use at home, and is there a Mac equivalent? I would also never get involved with registry coding etc (hopefully). Cheers for all the input! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yes USB devices will work just fine. Excel-wise you could always install Excel - there is an OS X version of Office, or get iWork which includes a very good spreadsheet now, or even download NeoOffice for free which is pretty much 100% Excel compatible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jari Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I had the same dilema a few months ago, I went for a Macbook Pro and never looked back, absolutely stunning piece of kit used for work and home. If you still want XP or Vista capability then you can either: 1) partition the Mac (using Apple's bootcamp) to dual boot or 2) or even better use VMWare Fusion http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/ for 59USD where you can run windows apps directly on the Mac OS X desktop. - have the best of both worlds. ..but, I reckon you may well just end up using OS X, its intuitive and friendly to use and the apps that come with the OS such as iPhoto etc are very nice. This is just my experience of becoming a Mac newbie, its horses for courses at the end of the day. I still use other OS's daily such as Solaris, Linux for the work I do, but I have been very impressed so far with Apple and will probably add to the family an iMac soon. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jari Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 With regards to Excel or any MS compatibility. You can run Openoffice or Neoffice (both are same thing except neooffice at present is more tweaked for Mac and you are encourgaed to donate a few dollars towards the project) of which are freely downloadable and are compatible with Excel, MS Word and Powerpoint. http://www.neooffice.org http://www.openoffice.org You can also purchase MS Office for the Mac too but I would give the above a go it may do everything you need. At my workplace we use Openoffice/Staroffice for everything and its very compatible with MS products, Rachel may be able to back me up on that. I also use openoffice on Windows for that matter. You can download openoffice right now on your PC from www.openoffice.org to give it a try. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I currently back up a lot of photos and music to external drives, all of which are USB. Will these simply plug into a Mac and work correctly? Finally, is there a way of running excel on a Mac? installing XP perhaps?? Its probably the only program I would use at home, and is there a Mac equivalent? I would also never get involved with registry coding etc (hopefully). Cheers for all the input! D. [/ QUOTE ] USB and firewire devices "just work" out of the box on Apple gear - you don't get the behaviour of "detecting new hardwware", "installing drivers" that Windows exhibits. If you want to run a spreadsheet - Numbers in iWork08 is excellent, NeoOffice (Open Office but with the OS X look and feel) has an excellent Excel compatible spreadsheet, or you can stump up for Microsoft Office 2004 (the new Apples have a trial copy of this pre-installed) or wait for Office 2008 next year. Open Office is worth a look as it looks similar on all platforms and is available for Windows, OS X , Linux, etc. Download a copy and have a play on your existing machine - you might find it does everything you need. As for registry hacks - OS X is based on the open version of Berkley's BSD UNIX (FreeBSD), so if you are a UNIX hacker you just get into the system and edit the appropriate files. Ultimately, if you REALLY want to run Windows, I'd recommend using VMware (as mentioned above) or Parallels (http://www.parallels.com/ - which I use daily at work) to run it as a virtual machine rather than try partitioning the harddrive and dual booting. With the VMs - you can drag and drop between OS X and Windows, you can open Windows files with OS X applications or OS X file with Windows applications; and if you don't want it on your hard drive, you can install it on a USB or Firewire drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 One of the best things is the location switch, I have mine set up for... WORK HOME ROAMING FRANCE ITALY Nokia. Work is my static ip address at work. Home is my static ip address at home. Roaming gives me a dynamic ip for when out and about. France and Italy is set up for connections out there. Nokia uses my phone for getting online with 3G. Litterally drop down menu from the taskbar, switches in 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabster Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I have a MBP which I got in July in Dallas so I wasent really impacted by the price of a Mac over a PC. I still have a Vaio and a Dell notebook but I always use the Mac. Just upgraded to Leopard and loving it its just so user friendly. As for getting used to two operating systems if you can use windows you can use Mac OSX. I cant see me ever buying a PC again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark88 Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 I've never heard of anyone who's ever bought a Mac in recent years and then decided to go back to Windows PCs. I just installed Leopard and it's much improved over Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolair Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 if you buy via the apple web site 'refurb' section, you'll save 20-40%. All kit is good as new, and full warranty. If you buy the MBP, I recommend the Applecare - it will pay for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Cheers for all the input! D. [/ QUOTE ] So - how did it all turn out? Have you selected the toy du jour and paid your $$$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scillyisles Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 I run both Mac and Thinkpad machines and there is not really that much between them. I would never buy Dell anything. HP are now producing some good quality laptops which are worth looking at. A Thinkpad will invariably outlast a Macbook Pro as the build quality is second to none and if you do have a hardware problem with a Thinkpad then their 3 year worldwide warranty makes Apple's offering look pretty stupid. I had all sorts of problems getting a Macbook Pro repaired as Apple do not offer the same sort of hardware care that Lenovo do. As one poster has already mentioned Applecare is a must - reason being that you get priority for repairs. Anyone who thinks Apple or Microsoft produce better operating systems than the other clearly knows very little about Computer Science. Both operating systems have large amount of spaghetti code in them and both have issues. Vista has had all sorts of problems with the new TCP/IP stack that they implemented to support TCP/IP version 6 and causes problems if some of your network/WAN gear is not happy with TCP/IP version 6. TCP/IP version 6 will be essential in a couple of years time but Microsoft perhaps introduced it without realising the problems that it would cause with older network gear. Vista runs fine on 2gb of main memory - maximum of 3gb is generally useable on Vista laptops. Leopard also has it's problems - lots of printer drivers and other drivers are not yet available which is frustrating given that printing or interfacing to other devices is often a key requirement. The usage that you plan for your laptop should not stretch either a Macbook or a PC laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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