johnnysenna Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Fellas, My GTI is in for a service and they have given me a GT 170. Thoughts: Lots of low/mid range torque producing plenty of wheelsin (before TC kicks in). Feels quick. Quick as a GTI until 4000 RPM. In fact it really lunges forward sometimes which can catch you off guard! Not that econimical. Computer says it's averaging 34 mpg. Very rattly and noisy engine. Unpleasant, that. The vibration of the engine goes through the clutch pedal into your foot. Interior not as nice as the GTI. Steering wheel not as nice. Exterior good. I like the wheels/grill etc, but clearly not a patch on a GTI. Overall.......impressive real world speed, but needs to isolate that diesel engine better. I was a bit shocked at the lack of refinement. I don't mind noise if it's nice noise (I have a very very loud 911), but 4 pot diesel noise is horrid. My dad is coming 'round this pm in his 1.9 DSG diesel. I'll have a spin in that and tell you what I think!! HOW BORING AM I?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 [ QUOTE ] The vibration of the engine goes through the clutch pedal into your foot. [/ QUOTE ] This is one of the most annoying things about many diesel models in my opinion. The engine might be quiet when up to full operating temperature but the vibration through some of the controls is annoying. Nice little review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I found the mk5 TDIs very unrefined as you say you feel the vibration and there not the quietest. Funny thing is we also own a TDI mk1 leon and i find it much more refined than the mk5 TDIs i have driven or even the mk4 TDIs. VWs PD units are not very quiet or refined its one of the reasons they have gone to common rail, I find the fiat diesels far more refined with far better power band and delivery than the current VWs. The VW CR cannot come soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 That's a very fair short term assessment jonny As some of you will recall I sold my '06 GTi privately and replaced it with a 170 GT Sport, saving over £2.5k on a factory order via a broker (UK car) I specced the diesel almost identically to the Gti and I've now knocked up 2k miles since October. Impressions to date: *The engine is noisy until warm and running at 1500 rpm+. I'm not aware of excessive vibration via the clutch pedal - but I never rest my foot there and often don't use the clutch anyhow on 'up' changes when I'm not pressing on.... *Economy to date is not as good as an earlier 1.9 PD (Remapped to 154bhp) - however I am getting 42 overall since new and I don't hang about! *I've got the leather trim and have since fitted GTi pedals and steering wheel - worthwhile improvements for me! So the 'comfort zone' is identical! * I no longer have every pimply youth in a chavved up Saxo/Corsa/Peugeot up my arse (or more importantly locked onto my wifes back bumper!) * Journey times are all but identical * I've no finance and the change to the 170 saves me around £60 a month - I'm retired so every little helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Very tidy little review, johnny I was very amused (actually laughed out loud) when I read "I don't mind noise if it's nice noise (I have a very very loud 911), but 4 pot diesel noise is horrid" - Somehow I doubt if there's a lot of cars which can excite the ears as much as a very very loud 911 Look forward to what you have to say about the DSG 1.9 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Cheers fellas. Re: the diesel 170: When I referred to the vibration through the clutch pedal, I didn't mean that I rest my foot on the clutch. I just meant that just before pulling away from the lights I would then put my foot on the clutch and feel that vibration. Not nice. The noise didn't get quieter when the eingine heated up. The lack of refinement compared to the GTI is always there. It's a shame. I haven't driven one, but I bet the BMW 335d or 535d doesn't send crappy vibrations thorugh the clutch pedal and noise through the cabin. Anyway.....my dad's 1.9 diesel DSG: not bad. The refinement was slightly better than the 170, but not good enough. The gearbox is good. But it needs paddles behind the steering wheel. It isn't that quick, but perfect for your dad. In conclusion, if you want ecomony and an auto, why not get a 1.4 turbo/supercharged GT DSG?? No vibrations and noise. Decent looks and economy. Job done. My 911 returns on Wednesday. It's been away for 12 months having the engine rebuilt! It will be noisy, but very pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 That's a nice combo to have in your drive, most pleasing i must say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 [ QUOTE ] That's a nice combo to have in your drive, most pleasing i must say [/ QUOTE ] Cheers dude. I apprecate quality!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Interested to know what the 911's had done to it to be away for 12 months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 [ QUOTE ] The noise didn't get quieter when the eingine heated up. The lack of refinement compared to the GTI is always there. It's a shame. I haven't driven one, but I bet the BMW 335d or 535d doesn't send crappy vibrations thorugh the clutch pedal and noise through the cabin. [/ QUOTE ] I have to admit that the 535d although very refined for a diesel still sounded like a diesel on idle, only a die hard diesel/bmw-phile would try and convince you otherwise. If you want to hear a smooth diesel, try the new 177bhp 3 series, new engine that only came out mid September, it is honestly the smootest and one of the quietest diesels I have heard, even from cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Re: the diesel 170: When I referred to the vibration through the clutch pedal, I didn't mean that I rest my foot on the clutch. I just meant that just before pulling away from the lights I would then put my foot on the clutch and feel that vibration. Not nice. [/ QUOTE ] I know exactly what you meen. We were going to 'upgrade' our late 2005 leon for a mk5 golf GT TDI but after driving a few the power band was smaller, the cabin refinment from engine noise was less, the vibration was more and the exterior deisel noise was more too, seemed a step back apart from ride quality and i had one for a weekend to make our minds up. I have also driven the 1.9 mk5 and been unimpressed with its refinment too. Mind i have also driven mk4 golf TDIs and other older leon TDIs than ours and felt the same as i do about the mk5 tdi's ours seems to be a good one. Every time i have driven a modern fiat Common rail engined car though it makes the VWs feel like there from the dark ages or from the 80s at least. I just hope VWs 4pot new common rail engines are far more refined than there current PD ones, not long to wait for them at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 The VAG PD engines are extremely unrefined comapred with the competition, although in general they have had better economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Loving the 993 johnnysenna; loving it. RS or C2S/C4S? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Loving the 993 johnnysenna; loving it. RS or C2S/C4S? [/ QUOTE ] Thanks mate. It's a 1995 993 RS. It has had clubsport equipment fitted later on (welded cage etc) and now has air jacks as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Interested to know what the 911's had done to it to be away for 12 months! [/ QUOTE ] I've had a nightmare. The car went for a service at Fearnsport Silverstone (the best there is) and what started as a remap/cam timing job progressed to a top end rebuild, then a full engine rebuild. We needed to source lots of rare parts and have some bespoke parts made specially as well. Massive bill. We are talking new injectors, pistons, liners, cams, con rods, loom, valves etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Blimey, sounds like it goes like a train! Looks like a lovely car. So do you have some track days planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 BMW have VW licked for diesels. I have driven so many VAG group TDI's and their refinement is poor, very poor. I am simply amazed that they aren't leaders in TDI refinement. Their TDI units should be as quiet as their petrol units IMO. Every Golf GT that I see sounds like a diesel, i thought they were 1.4 petrols (with some tasty add ons )... am i mistaken!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Blimey, sounds like it goes like a train! Looks like a lovely car. So do you have some track days planned? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. First is the annual Oulton Park Porsche RS track day in March. Best meet of the year. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 The GT comes in TDI or TSI form, both 170 bhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 [ QUOTE ] The GT comes in TDI or TSI form, both 170 bhp. [/ QUOTE ] For me it would have to be the petrol version I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robe Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I tried the 170 GT Tdi before i got my GTI. Its a company car so the tax is an important factor for me. Turns out the deisel only saves me 30 quid or so per month so just not worth it.. GTI all the way Loving that RS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair_A3 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Gorgeous 993 RS mate You'll love Oulton if you havent been, i live close to it and have had alot of fun there in the caterham. Hope to take the 205 GTi trackcar there soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordlad Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Had a 2.0tdi as a courtesy car, my views on it were: - Interior not as sporty, let the car down - The feeling I was driving the same car as everyone else - Diesel rattle as discussed + Pokey car + 170bhp not bad really My summary is no way would I change, the only reason I would would be down to mileage, but even then I am not sure I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysenna Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Gorgeous 993 RS mate You'll love Oulton if you havent been, i live close to it and have had alot of fun there in the caterham. Hope to take the 205 GTi trackcar there soon [/ QUOTE ] Hi mate. I have done Oulton a few times, but I still find it very challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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